I have never even heard the term before a week ago, my aunt said I should check out "scientific pantheism", The page I read was that nature itself can provide spiritual nourishment, without any magic, superstition or deities. When we look at the milky way and our jaw drops in awe, that is a similar experience in the mind to "feeling a god". , that is what I took from it so far. "But we are not talking about supernatural powers or beings. We are saying this: We are part of nature. Nature made us and at our death we will be reabsorbed into nature. We are at home in nature and in our bodies. This is where we belong. This is the only place where we can find and make our paradise, not in some imaginary world on the other side of the grave." https://www.pantheism.net/beliefs/

Um....
Pantheism-a doctrine that identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
Pantheism-the belief that all reality is identical with divinity, or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent god.

I do not grok her words. "Thou art god" always seemed to cover Pantheism nicely in my eyes.

Not to resurrect an extremely old thread, but I happened to stumble upon this old clip, and after having read some of the comments, felt compelled to say this about Hell: that it basically invalidates its own existence insofar as 'nothingness' can be a place.

First, we recall that the Bible makes numerous references to God being omnipresent and omnibenevolent.
Second, as discussed above, we see that Christian dogma says Hell is the absence of God (and His love, since for all intents and purposes they're the same thing, being all-good and everywhere).
So, that means that Hell is a place where God isn't, and God is in every possible place simultaneously, the old throwbacks to pantheism. Therefore, Hell is nothingness.

As an atheist, I think that when I die, my consciousness goes into 'nothingness' anyway- so there's essentially no difference for me in dying and going to Hell and dying in a universe without God.

reminds me of this:http://www.pantheism.net/paul/union.htm
You lose your self and enter a trance where the self doesn't exist.
it's a powerful experience. but I wouldn't recommend it.
There are plenty of meditations on self that ARE true meditations, and have real value. Just not this one.

He says no one's fighting over Isis or Greek gods etc. "anymore". Were they ever? It's pretty hard to inspire the kind of groupthink you get in monotheisms when there's a whole pantheism of gods, each more human and flawed than the other... Once you proclaim that there is only one true god/doctrine, then you're ready for some real "divinely" inspired action (especially when you choose the war god Yahweh as your one and only).

Wow that was an amazing (albeit long) series of videos. I would consider it to be the mother of all non-rant videos on religion. Although I've always considered myself to be an atheist, I never knew how similar my beliefs are to pantheism.

And to you flamers, why would you judge an academic video by the BGM selection?

@Jesus_Freak:

First, "bigotry" doesn't take two "g". Maybe you should spend more time with a dictionary than a Bible.

As for your purported claims of Jesus' divinity as found in the site you linked, well, assuming he really did want to make it known that he was divine wouldn't you think there would be more than NINE verses in the whole Bible about that? And three of the quotes aren't from the apostles, which writings amount to hearsay in the best case anyway (the rest of the New Testament in mostly shit, especially anything written by Paul, but it still doesn't show how Jesus is somehow divine). Plus, there is a section on the page that says in bold "Jesus is worshipped - Jesus said to worship God only, yet He receives worship." That kind of shows that Jesus wasn't a deity, at least in the sense that he was simply as much divine as everyone else on earth.

Plus, the only direct assertion is in John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." But this is quoted out of context, where Jesus says something about sheep being given to him by his father and thus he and his father being of one purpose in leading these sheep (that includes you, Jesus_Freak). In John 17:10 : "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." Looks like pantheism to me or some shit.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.2.7.html (yes this is from a Muslim book, but hosted on the University of Buffalo site, thus very respectful blah blah blah and the page in question has no Islamic doctrine in it) Read that for many quotes that demonstrate how the first Christians, as shown in the texts of the New Testament themselves, thought about the unity of Jesus and God. The first recorded use of the word "trinity" in christian texts is in 170 A.D. and the doctrine of trinity only adopted in 325 A.D. So the divinity of Jesus is indeed a later purely theological development.

So I was skimming your post here, and I came to this line: "to put things in their simplest form.the universe and everything within it..is god." which is exactly the line I always use to describe Pantheism, which is what I believe in. Or more accurately, naturalistic Pantheism.

While I was raised Methodist, and went to Sunday school, Christianity just never made sense to me. It was too close to Santa Claus. Be good, and you'll get presents! Be bad and you'll go to Hell! So years ago when I took PHIL 101 in college, we touched on Pantheism and Spinoza. As the class covered so many different religions and philosophies, we didn't stay on it for too long. Later, I looked it up in the dictionary and this was the definition I found:
1. The doctrine which states that all existing matter and actions within the Universe are God
2. Toleration of all other worships and creeds

That pretty much nailed it on the head for me. God was not an omnipresent, omniscient and benevolent being as the Christians andother faiths believe, nor was it broken out into a pantheon of separate beings, each requisite with their primary token. It is the human perception and cultural mores that create and label good and evil, just like that same perception provides some with a "God" with anthropomorphic and/or supernatural qualities. Or labeling the God as "good". Instead, God was just a word used to describe and represent all things within and beyond known reality. It doesn't mean God is good, or bad; it doesn't mean that God is some other separate entity or force that resides in the Universe. Everything is God...you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. (Sorry, went a little Yoda on you there)

But also (well, at least in this dictionary), it included the line regarding tolerating all other worships and creeds. Which fit me as well. Hey, if you want worship Christ, good for you! If you want to go dance naked around a bonfire up in the mountains, more power to ya! If that's what floats your boat, awesome. But DON'T try to change my line of thinking to be in line with yours, as 1) it's disrespectful and 2) I certainly wouldn't do the same to you. So that was another plus.

So I don't know if you're a Pantheist or not, but it sounded like it when I read your post, and was inspired to share. Anyway, take care, and have a good weekend mang!

This is a great response. Good on ya.

In reply to this comment by Ariane:
I consider myself an Atheist simply because of the fact that I am not a theist.

A theist cannot simply be someone who believes in God, because there are so many levels to the God question. I decided to take a pragmatical approach and ask "Does it matter if God exists?"

When you restate the question that way, most all speculative philosophies all end up on the NO side. If you believe there is an intelligence at work in the universe (pantheism), you probably will conclude that this intelligence is so foreign to human existence that this "intelligence" plays no role whatsoever in human lives. If you take the Buddhist approach and say "Everything is God", then there is no separate entity controlling existence.

Ultimately, the only philosophy where God really matters, is Anthropomorphic Theism = God is a separate entity with human characteristics that watches over us and cares what we say and do.

Conclusion: If you believe in an Anthropomorphic God, you are a theist. If your idea of God is anything else, it is for all intents and purposes the same as not believing in God at all.

I have a love of science. Understanding the true nature of the world around me fills me with awe and wonder. There are many mysteries to existence, some so difficult we humans may not be capable of answering them, yet we thinking humans are still driven to find those answers, while the unthinking ones are content with slapping the label "God" on it and calling it a day.

I consider myself an Atheist simply because of the fact that I am not a theist.

A theist cannot simply be someone who believes in God, because there are so many levels to the God question. I decided to take a pragmatical approach and ask "Does it matter if God exists?"

When you restate the question that way, most all speculative philosophies all end up on the NO side. If you believe there is an intelligence at work in the universe (pantheism), you probably will conclude that this intelligence is so foreign to human existence that this "intelligence" plays no role whatsoever in human lives. If you take the Buddhist approach and say "Everything is God", then there is no separate entity controlling existence.

Ultimately, the only philosophy where God really matters, is Anthropomorphic Theism = God is a separate entity with human characteristics that watches over us and cares what we say and do.

Conclusion: If you believe in an Anthropomorphic God, you are a theist. If your idea of God is anything else, it is for all intents and purposes the same as not believing in God at all.

I have a love of science. Understanding the true nature of the world around me fills me with awe and wonder. There are many mysteries to existence, some so difficult we humans may not be capable of answering them, yet we thinking humans are still driven to find those answers, while the unthinking ones are content with slapping the label "God" on it and calling it a day.

Prepare to Meet Thy God
March 22, 2009

"Therefore thus will I do unto thee, O Israel: and because I will do this unto thee, prepare to meet thy God, O Israel." (Amos 4:12).

There is only one thing that everyone can know for sure. Not even death and taxes are certain, for some will never die. But "every one of us shall give account of himself to God" (Romans 14:12).

Even those who don't believe in God, those who ridicule His Word, those who disobey His laws, those who worship false gods--everyone must some day meet God. There is no better advice than: "Prepare to meet thy God!"

If anyone should ask what God, the answer is the true God, the Creator. Not the false gods of pagan pantheism, not the natural systems and processes of evolutionism, but the one and only God of Creation. He is the one who knows the thoughts of man and "maketh the morning darkness" (Amos 4:13) for all who reject or ignore Him. The word here for "darkness" is used only one other time in Scripture and is synonymous with hell--"A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness" (Job 10:22).

In the coming judgment, "the wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God" (Psalm 9:17). The message of Amos needs to be heard in every generation: "Prepare to meet thy God!" For "the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment" (Psalm 1:5), and the judgment is sure: "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment," and for those who die unprepared, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 9:27; 10:31).

The only way to come into His presence prepared, of course, is through Jesus Christ, who is Himself the Lord of all the hosts of Heaven. HMM

>> ^snoozedoctor:
I'm impressed by the amount of vitriol against religion on the Sift. I guess many of you haven't had the good fortune to be involved in moderate, religious activism.

Actually, I was raised in a rather moderate/liberal branch of UCC.

People here act as if the two are mutually exclusive, whereas they most certainly are not, Einstein being a notable example (not necessarily ascribing to an organized faith, but rather belief in a supreme diety.)

Read the first chapter of the God Delusion. Einstein did not beleive in a personal god. Maybe you could describe his beliefs as pantheism, which definitely does not include the idea of prayer. As Carl Sagan said, it makes no sense to pray to the law of gravity.


Same with Brian Greene of string theory.

String Theory should be regarded as a pseudoscience until such time as it actually makes a testable prediction that differs from the standard model. String Theory reminds me of taking a beautiful formula and splitting it up into a fourier series.

Greene is a demagogue, getting so enthusiastic about popularizing an idea before there's actually any evidence for it.

The people I worship with wear blue jeans, we play loud rock and roll music and we actively provide charity to Rwanda.

I'll bet that a lot of members of the Flat Earth Society do too. If a larger percentage of Flat Earth Society members help Rwanda than the general public, does that justify promoting the belief that the Earth is flat? No. You have to distinguish between the sugar-coating and the bullshit at the core.

When you lump Christians, Muslims, Buddists, etc. into the same mold you display all the prejudice you rail against. Sorry, but true.

Buddhism is an agnostic philosophy, not really a religion.

The core problem that all religions posess is a reliance on faith, which is an epistemological vulnerability.

The core teachings of Buddhism recognize (even exaggerate) tentativeness of all knowledge, unlike the dogmas of almost every other religion.