Trick with those, just never investigate. If you reach a conclusion, there's no more room to lie.

Wait, forget i said that.

--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------


"been fed wild falsehoods. Because he was angry he lost an election

"There is no question, none, that president Trump is responsible for provoking and the events of the day. No question about it

"The people that stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their president

"Having that belief was a foreseeable consequence of the growing crescendo of false statements, conspiracy theories, and reckless hyperbole which the defeated president continued shouting into the largest megaphone on Earth.

"[He] manufactured an entire atmosphere of looming catastrophe. Increasingly wild myths about a reverse landslide election

"And I am voting to acquit
-Mitch McConnell

https://youtu.be/yxRMoqNnfvw

@newtboy
Do you honestly believe a BLM sign holder at a clan March would be treated better? What about at a Trump rally? If you claim to think either case wouldn't end in hospitalization, you're not being honest.

Not only did I never claim that, I have trouble figuring why you think I would? My second sentence again:"My opinion though lies the same whether it’s this guy treated as he was in the video, or if the situation was reversed and the lone guy had a BLM sign instead, same standard applies."

I oppose meeting speech with force excepting when that speech is being used to promote violence or harm, I'm also willing to allow that 'speech' can also amount to being disruptive or harassment like your notion of bringing inappropriate material to a kids park, or using a megaphone inches from someone's face.

I kind of thought on that point we'd find agreement, or at least understanding and agree to disagree?

Opening a new point from you're statement:He was the instigator. His sign amounts to "you will not silence our Nazi voice" at a rally pushing to silence their Nazi voice in their neighborhood.

I've read a few of the links you provided, and looked up a few articles on the gallery and I'm having troubles with the characterization. Do you have a good specific link that more clearly focuses on the nazi support from the gallery? The reading I've done seems to describe an art gallery, that allowed exhibits and talks from far-right and at least arguably fascist speakers on possibly a few occasions. You seem to talk like it was operating openly as a neo-nazi HQ.

So, what I've looked up so far, it does look an awful lot like a gallery pulled in speakers that people disliked, so they rallied to shut down the gallery as punishment for allowing wrong-think to be spoken. Then when guys like the one in the video came to defend free-speech, they too were classed as nazi's and lumped in as enemies too. Last article I found by the guy in video, so maybe he's lying, but other articles I've found also suggest that the gallery operated more generally rather than being an explicitly alt-right hub:
https://medium.com/@dctvbot/i-regret-nothing-c05401636032

Looks like a young megaphoned Jeffrey Beauregard Sessions I do declare

INTERCEPTED PODCAST: THE TRUMP MIXTAPE — DANTE’S INFERNO MEETS DISCO INFERNO
https://megaphone.link/FL2441335022

the left won the moral argument decades ago,now a small cadre a shrieking harpies has taken over to....ok..i don't know WHAT they are trying to do,because everytime i try to speak to one of those snowflakes,they spray me with pepper spray,call me a rapist and run to their safe space.

or they tell me that i am not entitled to an opinion,because i am a hetero-white-male.

not saying a discussion with someone on the ultra right fares any better.either they want to share their adoration of their corporate jesus..joel olsteen..or they are constantly trying to berate me with neo-fascist literature,and show me just how patriotic a super patriot like them REALLY is,and then tell me why they couldn't join the military due to horrible bunions.

and of course one mention of muslims and they wet themselves.getting sick of loaning out my extra clothes because their bladder gets weak at the mere mention of brown people.

for years we have watched the left lose their way,and get lost in an ocean of rhetoric and faux outrage,and the same has happened with the right.

the extremes have taken hold of the megaphone,and are trying to shout each other down with their own sanctimonious self-righteous moralizing.

so the left is in the corner picking boogers and the right has gone fucking insane.

i'm telling you guys...
trump is not the disease...
he is a symptom.

our country is very very sick right now.

and i fear it is only going to get worse.

i predicted when trump won that he would rival bush in his ineptness and bungling buffoonery.well here it is a month into his presidency and i think i can say with some conviction:i was wrong..it is going to be so much worse than bush.

i need a drink...

@00Scud00

I don't disagree that alcohol and tobacco policy is hypocritical and yes alcohol is worse, but that still doesn't change the fact that pot can be abused and if you have a megaphone, making it sound cool doesn't help.

Also, I would say promoting using it alongside legalization actually worsens arguments for decriminalization in general because rather than focusing on it how it ruins lives and job prospects, detractors can just paint you as someone who wants to get high. I think those who don't use pot are better advocates.

...as too usual...a discussion,...civil, information driven, more or less courteous and respectful...

...then IT, "Little...choggie Thing," rears ITs vitriolic filth dripping and spewing head.

At least, for a rare change, IT speaks from whence IT has an obvious extensive base of knowledge and experience, eg., drug-addled nightmares,


...and,...oh goodie...another insincere, self serving voting op! HMMMMM! Let's see,...I vote both, kind of,...TROLL who at ITs characteristic worst is yelling amazingly reflective self knowledge through his megaphone that is his alimentary canal in to his flith stuffed deafened ears.

The 20th?? Oliver Stone says Rumsfeld ordered the invasion plan of Iraq drawn up on 9/11 while Dubya was still reading about little goats.
He is supposed to have told them to "Sweep it all up".

By the time Bush got on the megaphone at ground zero and told a cheering crowd he was going to get even he'd already told his Daddy's business partners the Bin Ladens they were letting Saudi Arabia off.

a little over 30 years ago news used to be not-for profit but rather a badge of honor and integrity.journalists and newsrooms prided themselves on actually reporting and while there were still problems,america had a fourth estate that (for the most part) still reported actual news.

where we find ourselves today is corporate opinion news that (since the late 70's) is FOR-profit).gone are the days of actual news and what is placed in its stead is entertainment dressed up like a dolled-up whore which the zombified american public has been hypnotized to believe is "news" when in actuality it is just entertainment.opinion generated conflict in order to create a dramatic soap opera where americans can enjoy their mac-n-cheese on tv trays and nod their heads in drooling supplication to their corporate (insert name here) god.

how do you control a population of supposed "free society"?
you cant have the midnight knock.
nor can you black bag every dissenting voice.
no no...
you control how they think.
you control their opinion.

let us consider a few points:
1.the media is the NUMBER ONE lobbyist.
not big oil.
not big pharma.
but the media.
2.with almost 3000 media outlets in the USA yet only FIVE owners.(thank you cuntface michael powell!)
that is one mighty powerful megaphone to influence the opinions of a population.
and its works....brilliantly.just look at some of the comments here.

@chingalera has pointed this out in his usual colorful manner and is spot on.

independent news media is the only way to go if you are looking for actual journalism.

@shinyblurry do not get caught in the trap my friend.do not rely on corporate "news" to enlighten you concerning the situation in the middle east nor the origins of the anymosity towards america.truth does not suit their purposes in controlling your opinion.
might i recommend this most excellent documentary:
http://videosift.com/video/The-Power-of-Nightmares-part-1

and @quantumushroom i will let chomsky address your false equivalency argument:

You also didnt have a megaphone blasting at you requesting you leave that area. Safe to say there was no need to immediately disperse, and had they all been hanging around watching someone get stabbed then you should have left and called the cops.

>> ^L0cky:

I went into town one evening a few weeks ago and saw a big crowd of people. I decided to walk up and see what was going on. Turned out the Olympic torch was passing through and they were putting on a show of it; and man it was pretty slick.
But now that I've read you're post I realise how stupid I was. I could have been associating myself with all kinds of horrible crimes; maybe even murder or drink driving! And as I wasn't ACTIVELY disassociating myself from the activities before me I was justifiably laying myself down to the mercy of any reckless police officer that may be in the vicinity. If one of them shot me, I would have felt foolish and would have only myself to blame. Thanks for the info!
Or rather, without the smart ass stuff, you're post has a major flaw. You failed to specify any crime that this naive, biased, hothead youth of America was supposed to be disassociating himself from.
>> ^legacy0100:
Know your civic duties before claiming you are being violated of your rights. Naive, biased, hotheaded youth of America.

@dystopianfuturetoday

I think you go about prostylization the wrong way. I see you as kind of a digitized version of the guy who stands outside of bars with a megaphone and a sandwich board, passing judgement off on revelers that just don't care at best, and want to pick a fight with you at worst. Well intended, but not persuasive or well received.

I went about things the wrong way when I first arrived here, being somewhat of a neophyte to evangelism, which set the tone for the rest of my time here. Along the way, I've made some mistakes and said some things which further served to marginalize me, which the antitheists here have throughly capitalized on.

I was more hot blooded when I arrived, and cocky, being throughly schooled in all manner of philosophical argumentation, and having been *experienced* in the transcendent, I was more interested in dismantling arguments than showing the love of Christ. I regret that, but what's done is done. What's true is that God makes everything new.

My main failure was to take the bait of the innumerable insults that have been thrown my way. This was simply an immaturity in my faith, not really understanding what Jesus said about how I should react to them. He said to love that person, no matter how much they hate you. Pray for those who persecute you and despitefully use you. The insults are not as bothersome anymore. I'm more interested now in love than argument.

You write these large blocks of text filled with Bible verses, judgement and a good deal of fire and brimstone. FYI: Bible verses, judgement, fire and brimstone only work on people who already believe in and fear God, just as you probably have no fear of Xenu, Allah or Mitt "White Horse" Romney (google it - funny story)

I have a wide variety of conversations on the sift, many of them on historical, philosophical, and scientific topics. People ask me questions about nearly everything, and so I think it would be difficult to pigeonhole my comments this way. Certainly, I have witnessed the truth about Gods judgment, but this isn't my main focus. As far as fearing God goes, you're right, many do not, but their conscience is still witnessing against them.

I'll look up Mitt "white horse" Romney.

The Christians in my life that make me most sympathetic to Christianity are the ones who express their faith through actions, not words. I've only met a handful of these people in my life, but they've all made a positive impact on my life. These are the people who exude love, empathy, understanding and compassion. These are the people that say 'I love you' when you really need to hear 'I love you.' You feel it almost like an aura around them. And, in every case, I had to inquire about them to discover their faith - with none of that uncomfortable evangelizing that comes off more like used car sales pitch than deep expression of faith. And, unlike the used car sales pitch, when I did learn of their faith, I felt a genuine respect for it.

Certainly, Christians should be doing good works at every opportunity. Faith without works is dead. Scripture advises two approaches to reach people. It says some save with mercy, and others with fear. Some people are so hardhearted that the only way to pierce their armor is to make them realize that they will have to answer for their secret sins, the ones that people hide behind their masks of public purity. To let them know that they didn't actually get away with it, whatever it may be. That's kind of why it kind of amuses me when I hear someone say something like "If I saw God I would tell Him off", as if God doesn't have them dead to rights on a list of sins 5 miles long.

Others are like a fragile flower, which must be handled very carefully and gently. Ones who have been abused by the church, for instance. It is truly sad how common this actually is. Of course there are many situations inbetween these two approaches, but in general, it is some combination of the two, leaning towards one of them.

I appreciate what you're saying about your friends. Perhaps this is the way the Holy Spirit has called them to deal with you. They are most certainly praying for your salvation. Again, it depends on the situation. It depends on the kind of relationship, and how much time you have to invest in someone. It is usually expedient to share the gospel in most cases.

Ultimately, it is out of our hands. I can't save anyone; only the power of God can change someones heart. When someone is saved, it is a true miracle.

Of course you can't choose what you believe; what you believe chooses you, so none of these people have brought me any closer to God. But that's OK, because they've done something much more important, they've brought me closer to my fellow humans. They've shown me the power of empathy (not that I'm always the most empathetic person - I've a ways to go in that category) and how contagious just being a good person can really be.

You believe according to your experience, and how interested you are in what is actually true, versus what you appear to see. If you believe that you are generally right about everything, then you will never look beyond your preconceived notions. I only changed my mind about God because He showed me the spiritual reality. I could not logically believe in naturalistic materialism as being a legitimate description of reality after that.

It's wonderful that your friends have taught you something about life, especially concerning the love of God. What Jesus teaches is that every human being has intrinsic value and is worthy of respect and love. He teaches us to love unconditionally and sacrificially, disregarding our own preferences for the good of others. If you can move past all of the contentious issues that surround these topics, and look to the words of Jesus Christ, you will find a transcendent love superior to the wisdom of this world. He gives us a standard of behavior that is impossible for any human being to live up to (without His help). Jesus asks more of you than any other person, in this time or any other, ever will.

I'm not sure if this helps you, especially considering it's pretty hard to refute aggressive atheists if you don't talk a great deal about your faith. Maybe a better path would be to understand where these atheists are coming from and what you have in common. Mutual respect. I don't know.

It does help me, and I appreciate your advice. There is always a better path when there is an argument, although, there is simply no avoiding having to debate certain things, when certain misconceptions are presented as the truth about what Christianity is. Even though you may be predisposed to agree with religious criticism, you must notice the distortions that are bandied about in the atheist community about Christianity and religion in general. I hear the same ones, over and over and over again.

I mean you no offense by this comment, my religious spite phase has mostly passed. I'd like to see you have a little better time on the site and not be the subject of scorn. Many of the discussion you have with atheists seem like a waste of time for all parties, because it's just a clash of worldviews rather than an attempt to find common ground and make progress. Some of the atheists on this site can be very cruel. I don't really follow these long back and forth theological battles anymore, but if someone crosses that line and is cruel to you, I'd be happy to join in on your side. If that appeals to you, drop me a PM.

I'm glad to hear that you are no longer in the business of giving theists a hard time. There are certainly enough people working doubleshift on this that you can walk away with your head held high. Yes, I agree, common ground should be sought out as a matter of course, although it is not an exaggeration to say that convinced atheists and theists typically disagree on almost everything. It's also hard to approach this on a human level, being that this is the internet, and the medium is far inferior for interpersonal communication. It is good for certain kinds of communication, but when it comes to empathy for instance, much is lost.

In any case, I genuinely appreciate your offer. Thank you for your magnanimousness. I may take you up on it sometime. I might also ask you how you see humanity avoiding a dystopianfuturetomorrow.

@shinyblurry Some constructive criticism:

I think you go about prostylization the wrong way. I see you as kind of a digitized version of the guy who stands outside of bars with a megaphone and a sandwich board, passing judgement off on revelers that just don't care at best, and want to pick a fight with you at worst. Well intended, but not persuasive or well received.

You write these large blocks of text filled with Bible verses, judgement and a good deal of fire and brimstone. FYI: Bible verses, judgement, fire and brimstone only work on people who already believe in and fear God, just as you probably have no fear of Xenu, Allah or Mitt "White Horse" Romney (google it - funny story)

The Christians in my life that make me most sympathetic to Christianity are the ones who express their faith through actions, not words. I've only met a handful of these people in my life, but they've all made a positive impact on my life. These are the people who exude love, empathy, understanding and compassion. These are the people that say 'I love you' when you really need to hear 'I love you.' You feel it almost like an aura around them. And, in every case, I had to inquire about them to discover their faith - with none of that uncomfortable evangelizing that comes off more like used car sales pitch than deep expression of faith. And, unlike the used car sales pitch, when I did learn of their faith, I felt a genuine respect for it.

Of course you can't choose what you believe; what you believe chooses you, so none of these people have brought me any closer to God. But that's OK, because they've done something much more important, they've brought me closer to my fellow humans. They've shown me the power of empathy (not that I'm always the most empathetic person - I've a ways to go in that category) and how contagious just being a good person can really be.

I'm not sure if this helps you, especially considering it's pretty hard to refute aggressive atheists if you don't talk a great deal about your faith. Maybe a better path would be to understand where these atheists are coming from and what you have in common. Mutual respect. I don't know.

I mean you no offense by this comment, my religious spite phase has mostly passed. I'd like to see you have a little better time on the site and not be the subject of scorn. Many of the discussion you have with atheists seem like a waste of time for all parties, because it's just a clash of worldviews rather than an attempt to find common ground and make progress. Some of the atheists on this site can be very cruel. I don't really follow these long back and forth theological battles anymore, but if someone crosses that line and is cruel to you, I'd be happy to join in on your side. If that appeals to you, drop me a PM.

I want a megaphone system in my car just so I can do this: "Who you honking at!?!"

Valid my ass.

The brand of free market bullshit that this guy pedals has fucked our entire system, led us to endless corporate war, created vast economic disparity, corrupted our politics beyond imagination, and wrought havok on the underclasses.

We should have national healthcare like the rest of the civilized world. Until we get that, I see no problem whatsoever in asking insurance companies to hand out contraceptives free of charge. Contraceptives are a lot fucking cheaper than the medical costs involved in both pregnancy and treating venereal disease, so this is a gift to the insurance industry. One wonders why they didn't think of it themselves.

Yes, I do hate this clown and his ideology that has failed time and time and time and time and time and time again. If he even once took some responsibility for his miserable career of failure, I might be more sympathetic. If he hadn't gone down to OWS to talk shit, I might be more sympathetic. I'm sick of these assholes. I think Schiff should be called out and reprimanded, and that's precisely what I did. I should remind you that my comments and downvotes are dissent as well, and that Mr. Schiff has a much bigger megaphone than my measly single downvote. Deal with it.

And why is it that I should not be permitted to dissent against Peter Schiff in your mind? Why should I not have the right to rail against this guy with my comments and downvotes? If you don't want your sacred cows charbroiled, then keep them in the fucking barn. Otherwise, you are going to have to learn to live in a world where people might disagree with you.

Sorry, but hearing people repeat the screamed words of a preacher freaks me out, no matter how benign they are. And yes, I know that it's just the "human megaphone" thing, but it hearkens to the sheep mentality so important in religious ideologies. *shudders*