Nice use of GEB specifically as a nod to the fantastic book Godel Escher Bach - my edition at least has exactly this shape on the cover.

I wanted to hear the bit on Godel's incompleteness theorem...

Clever. Anyone who has read Douglas Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach will recognize this as a crab canon. Well done!

Tags for this video have been changed from 'stephen fry, kurt godel, sewage, human life' to 'stephen fry, kurt godel, sewage, human life, walter matthau' - edited by ponceleon

Seriously great documentary!

If your interested in this one, you could maybe try and read "Godel, Escher Bach" by Douglas R. Hofstadter.. Great and almost too complicated book.. Thanks for the upload!

>> ^RadHazG:
I sit amazed, lost for words, but for these paltry few I use to describe the lack thereof.



Kurt Godel called: "Nice try."

Well, space-time coordinate of one of those space-time manifold charts (covering the space-time manifold) is one object that you certainly can "travel" back and forth(remember Godel formal PDE's solution for Einstein equation ). However , what realy counts and play the role of the Newtonian time in general Einstein relativity is the unique proper-time of a given event !(this can not be back!). Note that still remains a problem to "adjust" colectivelly the proper time of several geodesics associated to the motion of several particles moving in the back ground of a given relativistic gravitational field (The twin paradox has not been fully understood !).Let me explain better : In the Einstein framework , one gives a certain energy-momentum configuration (the "Sun") (mathematically a tensor of rank two in relation to the Local dipheomorffism space-time manifold group) in the (tensorial bundle) of space-time manifold :a object from the beginning possesing solely a differentiable topological structure and after that (and if compatible with the manifold topology-Chern /Gauss theorem constraint, Riemann completeness ,etc..), one determines the topologically compatible local metric structure of the smooth space-time by means of the famous Einstein Equations.If everything is smooth from a geometrical point of view , one starts the prediction of the "falling" bodies trajectories in this gravitational field throught the solution of the Boundary-Value Sturm liouville like problem associated to the geodesics non linear equations (you should know the beginning and the final point of the falling body trajectory into the space-time ,not the initial point and its "initial velocity" as in Newton Equation).Now one can make further steps on the Einstein program by exchanging the mater-energy Einstein's source by boundary ad-hoc conditions simulating point sources -delta sources-(not dipheomorffism covariant) ,like the Schwartz-Schild solution for Einsteinian particle motions around the Sun), and thus leading to a rich mathematical universe ( astronomical and astrophysical/cosmological observable ?)

OK, so I'll make a list now, and then read everybody elses and see if it reminds me of other books that really stick with me

1 Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid - Douglas Hofstadter
2 1984 - George Orwell
3 A Deepness In The Sky - Vernor Vinge
4 Interview With A Vampire - Ann Rice
5 Cyberpunk: Outlaws and Hackers on the Computer Frontier - Katie Hafner and John Markoff
6 The Tuning of The World - R. Murray Schafer
7 The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins
8 National Geographic Picture Atlas of Our Universe - Roy A. Gallant and Margaret Sedeen
9 The Perfectionist: Life and Death in Haute Cuisine - Rudolph Chelminski
10 The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals - Michael Pollan

OK, read others' and realize that I should have put Dune, for sure. I'm glad to see I'm not the only Hofstadter fan, and thrilled to see another Vinge on the list.

I feel kind of weird to have 1984 and Interview with a Vampire on my list. 1984, just because it really did stick and resonate, and well... I've probably read IwaV a few dozen times. Back in junior high I read it almost monthly.

I actually was considering putting The Star Wars Sourcebook by Bill Slavicsek & Curtis Smith on my list. That book blew my mind when I was young, and it definitely will always have a special place in my heart. Now that I look at a picture of the cover on Amazon, I wish that I had. Such an awesome book.

Noyce! If you think this is clever you should check out the Crab Canon from my most favourite book in the world Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, by Douglas Hofstadetr.

Crab Canon
----------

Achilles and the Tortoise happen upon each other
in the park one day while strolling.

Tortoise: Good day, Mr. A.
Achilles: Why, same to you.
Tortoise: So nice to run into you.
Achilles: That echoes my thoughts.
Tortoise: And it's a perfect day for a walk. I think I'll be walking home
soon.
Achilles: Oh, really? I guess there's nothing better for you than walking.
Tortoise: Incidentally, you're looking in fine fettle these days, I must
say.
Achilles: Thank you very much.
Tortoise: Not at all. Here, care for one of my cigars?
Achilles: Oh, you are such a philistine. In this area, the Dutch contribu-
tions are of markedly inferior taste, don't you think?
Tortoise: I disagree, in this case. But speaking of taste, I finally saw that
Crab Canon by your favorite artist, M.C. Escher, in a gallery the other
day, and I fully appreciate the beauty and ingenuity with which he
made one single theme mesh with itself going both backwards and
forwards. But I am afraid I will always feel Bach is superior to Escher.
Achilles: I don't know. But one thing for certain is that I don't worry about
arguments of taste. De gustibus non est disputandum.
Tortoise: Tell me, what's it like to be your age? Is it true that one has no
worries at all?
Achilles: To be precise one has no frets.
Tortoise: Oh, well, it's all the same to me.
Achilles: Fiddle. It makes a big difference, you know.
Tortoise: Say, don't you play the guitar?
Achilles: That's my good friend. He often plays, the fool. But I myself
wouldn't touch a guitar with a ten-foot pole.
(Suddenly the Crab, appearing from out of nowhere, wanders up ex-
citedly, pointing to a rather prominent black eye.)

Crab: Hallo! Hullo! What's up? What's new? You see this bump, this
from Warsaw - a collosal bear of a man - playing a lute. He was three
meters tall, if I'm a day. I mosey on up to the chap, reach skyward and
manage to tap him on the knee, saying, "Pardon me, sir, but you are
Pole-luting our park with your mazurkas." But WOW! he had no sense
of humor - not a bit, not a wit - and POW! - he lets loose and belts me
one, smack in the eye! Were it in my nature, I would crab up a storm,
but in the time-honored tradition of my species, I backed off. After all,
when we walk forwards, we move backwards. It's in our genes, you
know, turning round and round. That reminds me - I've always
wondered, "which came first - the Crab or the Gene?" That
is to say, "Which came last - the Gene, or the Crab?" I'm always
turning things round and round, you know. It's in our genes, after
all. When we walk backwards we move forwards. Ah me, oh my!
I must lope along on my merry way - so off I go on such a fine day.
Sing "ho!" for the life of a Crab! TATA! Ole!

(And he disappears as suddenly as he arrived.)

Tortoise: That's my good friend. He often plays, the fool. But I myself
wouldn't touch a ten-foot Pole with a guitar.
Achilles: Say, don't you play the guitar?
Tortoise: Fiddle. It makes a big difference, you know.
Achilles: Oh, well, it's all the same to me.
Tortoise: To be precise one has no frets.
Achilles: Tell me, what's it like to be your age? Is it true that one has no
worries at all?
Tortoise: I don't know. But one thing for certain is that I don't worry about
arguments of taste. Disputandum non est de gustibus.
Achilles: I disagree, in this case. But speaking of taste, I finally heard that
Crab Canon by your favorite composer, J.S. Bach, in a concert the
other day, and I fully appreciate the beauty and ingenuity with which
he made one single theme mesh with itself going both backwards and
forwards. But I am afraid I will always feel Escher is superior to Bach.
Tortoise: Oh, you are such a philistine. In this area, the Dutch contribu-
tions are of markedly inferior taste, don't you think?
Achilles: Not at all. Here, care for one of my cigars?
Tortoise: Thank you very much.
Achilles: Incidentally, you're looking in fine fettle these days, I must
say.
Tortoise: Oh, really? I guess there's nothing better for you than walking.
Achilles: And it's a perfect day for a walk. I think I'll be walking home
soon.
Tortoise: That echoes my thoughts.
Achilles: So nice to run into you.
Tortoise: Why, same to you.
Achilles: Good day, Mr. A.

In 1996 an ambient compilation came out on EM:T records called EM:T Explorer that had a track that exploited this same effect. The last track on the 1st CD was called Endlessly Downward and by an artist Beatsystem, and featured a 12 second loop repeated for 3 minutes and some odd seconds. So awesome.

The effect, though, is not new. As mentioned in the wiki page, bach utilised this effect as well. Everybody whose mind has just been blown? Go and read Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, by Douglas Hofstadter.

"Ethics do not require god. The circumstances and effect of an action determine whether an action is good or evil." The ends justifies the means? So rape is OK sometimes, but not other times? Who gets to determine whether the circumstances or effects are justifiable? The "majority"? Someone really "smart"? Maybe some really smart, minority group like atheists since, "World history and standardized test histograms show that it is and always has been the case that the majority of the world's population is misinformed, ignorant, stupid, or all of the above."

"...mankind is rapidly improving." I must have missed the memo. I'm sure the past 100 years of history out of human history are a good sample. Let's see, WWI, WWII, Cold War. OK, maybe just the past 5 years -- Darfur, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine.

From the about page, "EvilBible.com is a non-profit web site which was developed to promote atheism...". It contains some interesting stuff. Let's see "God Burns Little Ones" refers to Zechariah 13:7-9 which says "And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried." A careful reading shows that this reference isn't saying that children should be burned, but that their character will be tested and refined. Another reference on EvilBible says "Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven" referring to Matthew 19:12, but fails to take verse 19:11 in account where it is indicated that it may be better to not marry. Jesus is stating that choosing not to marry for religious reasons is a viable option (and he makes clear it isn't for everyone), not that castration is specifically the way to go. I could continue, but it is clear that this site attempts to misquote and misrepresent in order to bolster the Atheist's claims. Guess the "logical ethics system" allows trying to mislead as long as it brings people to your point of view.

Finally, I should accept "on faith" the atheist presupposition that logic or forensic evidence explains everything and that any other form of knowledge is either inferior or invalid? Godel's incompleteness theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del's_incompleteness_theorem) shows that a system (in his case, mathematics) cannot be proved or disproved based on the system itself. Why should I grant that (1) logic is the only available path to knowledge, (2) it is within logic's abilities to prove/disprove the existence of a God and (3) there isn't another, higher system that supercedes the system of logic?

I guess if I accepted your presupposition that logic explains everything, then your arguments make sense:

- The ends justifies the means (logic doesn't come with an ethical basis, so this one is as good as the next)

- Most people are idiots (assuming atheists are correct, logically the vast majority of the world must be stupid)

- Mankind is improving (I guess that since atheism has been held as the official state position of several large nations over the past century, things must be getting better?)

- Misrepresentation is OK to try and discredit another point of view (since "The circumstances and effect of an action determine whether an action is good or evil.", the atheist is free to do whatever they want as long as they think the circumstances and effect are in their favor).

Back to my original quote "Logic: an instrument used for bolstering a prejudice." My prejudice is simple -- Jesus was made radical statements about himself, God, religion, society, etc. that makes him unique from anyone else who ever lived. A simple cartoon and the ensuing logic argument attempt to ignore this altogether and avoid discussing the real issue -- what did Jesus do/say and what does that have to do with me?

this video jumped out at me because one of my favourite books is by Douglas Hofstadter (didnt know who he was though), it's called
Godel, Escher, Bach : An Eternal Golden Braid. opened my eyes to certain things about the universe.
anyway, this talk starts off a bit boring but gets a little more interesting about halfway...

A bunch of griefers in Second Life staged a members-only metaverse assault on "virtual real estate tycoon" Anshe Chung yesterday, during a staged SL event with CNET reporter Daniel Terdiman. A torrent of pixelated male genitals rained upon the victim, whose offline name is Ailin Graef.

Steve Hutcheon of the Sydney Morning Herald filed a comprehensive report of the incident here and tells BoingBoing, "If you can't visualize it, see this YouTube clip: Link." Snip from Steve's report:

"She is very popular, and some people don't like her," said CNET reporter Daniel Terdiman, whose Second Life avatar (online persona), GreeterDan Godel, was interviewing Anshe at the time of the attack.

"She's made a lot of money, and is one of the most prominent of all Second Life residents. So to some people, some griefers, that makes her a target."

Griefers are so-called because they create grief. Their antics are designed to interrupt proceedings in virtual worlds and games usually for no other reason than because they can.

Attacks like the one launched against Anshe are triggered by a program code that generates self-replicating objects.

Much like email spam, these "griefspawn" attacks can chew up system resources and slowing down performance. They can sometimes even trigger network crashes.