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I Left Her: HER REACTiON

Scooby doo papa

5 Yr Old Girl Discusses Princes Leia's Slave Outfit With Dad

SDGundamX says...

If only that were true.

This girl is 5 years old. Over the past 5 years, in every commercial she's seen on TV, on every magazine cover she's seen by the checkout counter when she's grocery shopping with her parents, in the majority of the cartoons she's watched and the dolls she's probably played with, in every reaction she's seen in adults' faces to how women dress and behave, she's been culturally programmed with and internalized what modern Western society deems as "beautiful."

It's unavoidable, really, as @Truckchase pointed out above. It's part of the socialization process. But if you've read about how Carrie Fisher struggled with body image issues and eating disorders throughout the filming of the original trilogy, then you probably (like me) find this video more tragic than cute.

Asmo said:

Good for the kid, she just made a decision based on what she found visually appealing without the entire patriarchy/matriarchy telling her what to think...

It won't last, but enjoy it while you can!

Obesity PSA - Obesity doesn't happen overnight

00Scud00 says...

1. That attitude is precisely why fat shaming is still more acceptable than say racism or homophobia, because many people see obesity as being entirely the fault of the fat person. And yeah models take flak for being too skinny but at the end of the day I'd bet they still don't take as much hate as fat people, and eating disorders are just as damaging as obesity.

2. If you agree that overeating and obesity can be symptoms of other problems then how do you imagine shaming everyone into submission will work? It's like going to the doctors office and discovering that he's prescribing penicillin for everything. Shaming can work in some cases but if you've got someone who's up to their eyeballs in shame and self loathing then after piling on more you might as well top it off with a tombstone for all the good it will do.
Obesity is a complex problem and in general people hate complex problems, they want simple 'one size fits all' (ahem) solutions. If you want to PREVENT obesity then you'll have to start thinking outside the box that is fat shaming.
Oh, and America got started down this road long before this generation, this is the culmination of generations of bad eating.

MichaelL said:

A couple of points in no particular order:

1. Fat shaming is akin to a criminal act in North America. Part of the whole 'abdication of personal responsibility' that has evolved over the past few decades. Ironically, it's okay to hate on skinny models for promoting a body type that often induces eating disorders in those trying to achieve it. What's good for one end of the spectrum is apparently not okay at the other...

2. I agree that overeating leading to obesity can be a symptom of other issues. That said, we're in full blown crisis mode. Obesity isn't just about fat... it's about heart disease, diabetes, and other related medical issues. Health care is going to crumble under the weight of it all - no pun intended.

It's a case of 'the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few'. If fat shaming PREVENTS a new generation of obesity, then the price as a society is worth it.

We should provide programs for those struggling with obesity NOW but we need to adopt a tough love approach.

It's part of my larger belief that by protecting stupid people from themselves we virtually guarantee our eventual extinction.

Rant over... and moving on... thx.

Obesity PSA - Obesity doesn't happen overnight

MichaelL says...

A couple of points in no particular order:

1. Fat shaming is akin to a criminal act in North America. Part of the whole 'abdication of personal responsibility' that has evolved over the past few decades. Ironically, it's okay to hate on skinny models for promoting a body type that often induces eating disorders in those trying to achieve it. What's good for one end of the spectrum is apparently not okay at the other...

2. I agree that overeating leading to obesity can be a symptom of other issues. That said, we're in full blown crisis mode. Obesity isn't just about fat... it's about heart disease, diabetes, and other related medical issues. Health care is going to crumble under the weight of it all - no pun intended.

It's a case of 'the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few'. If fat shaming PREVENTS a new generation of obesity, then the price as a society is worth it.

We should provide programs for those struggling with obesity NOW but we need to adopt a tough love approach.

It's part of my larger belief that by protecting stupid people from themselves we virtually guarantee our eventual extinction.

Rant over... and moving on... thx.

00Scud00 said:

@MichaelL
Actually, fat people seem to be one of the few groups these days that can still be made fun of. Shame can be useful but shaming someone who's overeating because of depression or has a poor self image will not help them, it will only make them worse.

@lucky760
Your kids have never had any juice or candy or ice cream before? I can respect your desire for healthy kids, but, wow! I hope it doesn't backfire and they wind up like Rigel from Farscape when they encounter candy for the first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mQzmK670yI

Clown Panties

dannym3141 says...

No problem. I've got a few jokes for you straight off the bat - what's brown and sticky? A stick. What's ET short for? He's only got little legs. Did you hear the one about the constipated mathematician? He worked it out with a pencil. Doctor doctor, i feel like a pair of curtains. Pull yourself together! What's black and white and eats like a horse? A zebra. What's black and white, black and white, black and white? A penguin rolling down a hill.

Hell, Tim Vine does hundreds of one liners in half an hour and the majority of them are not at anyone's expense.

I think you've confused what you find funny with the term "humour" as it were. You may only find shadenfreude funny, and so you think all humour is shadenfreude, but it is patently obvious that things can be humourous without being at someone's expense and i find it almost petulant to be asked to prove it when it is so obvious. You almost certainly know loads of jokes like that. How does Bob Marley like his donuts? Wi' jam-in. I stood there, wondering why the frisbee was getting bigger and bigger..... and then it hit me. What did the fish say when he swam into the wall? Dam.

From what i remember of Lenny Henry's standup (like him or not) in the old days, he didn't often tell a joke at someone's expense. Tommy Cooper used to make people laugh by doing bad magic tricks. Les Dawson used to make people laugh by playing the piano badly as only a good pianist can. Terry Pratchett makes me laugh by conjuring up funny situations in a fictional world. I laughed at the Big Lebowski when he shaded the pad of paper to see what secret notes Jackie Treehorn was making and it turned out to be a doodle of a man holding his own cock. What do you call a fish with no eyes? A fsh. I bought some new viagra eye drops, cos they make me look hard. What do you call a man with a shovel on his head? Doug.

I could go on and on and on, but i don't get paid for this and i have other stuff to do, but i hope i've opened your eyes to whole new realms of comedy where people don't get hit in the face with stuff. Where are the Andes? At the end of your wristies. Why didn't the skeleton go to the party? He had no body to go with.

I'm so confused by your request for proof that i feel like someone's asked me "Air? What air? There's no air, i can't see any!"

I'm utterly dreading to read your reply if it says anything along the lines of "That ET joke is offensive to short people! That skeleton joke is offensive to people with eating disorders! The penguin joke is offensive to the penguin you pushed down the hill!" Please don't embarrass us both by doing that, we both know those jokes aren't offensive. (Or very funny, to be honest.)

newtboy said:

Name it. Or try reading Stranger in a strange land for a better explanation of my point.
When analyzed thoroughly, all humor is at someone, or something's expense. I've never seen an exception...but I'm open to one if you have it!
EDIT: As I see it, all humor is schadenfreude (enjoyment taken from the misfortune of someone (or something) else. )

Stay in School Kids

Furious Pete's Origin Story

Woman thinks all postal workers are after her

Chairman_woo says...

I feel I can say with some authority that having worked with (primarily) schizophrenic patients for the last 3 years that you don't have the slightest clue what your talking about.

"She's a tiny step away from attacking these random strangers......she needs to be committed"

Yup, there's absolutely no hint here that she's the vulnerable one most likely to actually end up hurt or taken advantage of. (it's not like only around 10% (UK) of sufferers act violently) Better watch out for that crazy lady people! She's probably got an axe at home and everything....

"If you, or anybody were to try and talk to her and "understand" her, she would repay you with accusations of stalking and wanting to do her harm"

So you know her personally then? Maybe you read her case file instead? I'm sure you'd never make such an outrageously deep personal judgement about someone based on only a few video's clearly shot only during psychotic episodes!
Naturally you must have taken the time to find out what she's like when she's calm and comfortable and how her condition has developed over her lifetime, I mean what kind of colossally judgemental anus would make a sweeping character judgement without doing that? Not you I'm sure

So tell me. Has she had any cognitive behavioural therapy? Did she respond well? How frequently has she suffered episodes in the past? Is this a recent condition? What medication is she on? What kind of family support does she have? Has she ever committed a serious violent act in the past? Does she have friends? Is there any history of self harm, eating disorders, learning difficulties? Has she ever displayed suicidal ideation? Has she been institutionalised in the past? How did she respond to that? Has she ever refused treatment? ETC. ETC. ETC!!!!

"And what is there to understand?"

Yeh what's there to try and understand about the personal complexities of another human beings anguish? Clearly she just needs to be locked up in Bedlam and drugged with all the other crazies!.........
...........Disgusted beyond words

Rawhead said:

And what is there to understand? she accusing random strangers of staking her, that is the definition of insane, and crazy. Shes a tiny step away from attacking these random strangers. she needs treatment yes, but her treatment will take years, possibly decades. If you, or anybody were to try and talk to her and "understand" her, she would repay you with accusations of stalking and wanting to do her harm. she needs to be committed.

bjornenlinda (Member Profile)

Penn Jillette's Heated Argument About Connecticut Shooting

Sagemind says...

I think this article sums up what Penn is trying to say here:

Mentally ill doesn't equal evil

"One in five Canadians will deal with some form of mental illness in any given year in Canada. And most of these periods of suffering, whether it's a bout of acute anxiety or depression or an eating disorder, goes untreated. One in five Canadians equates to roughly 400,000 Vancouverites, or almost seven million Canadians nationally.

To think of all of these people as dangerous or homeless, or to see them as incapable of employment or a relationship, is ridiculous.

These numbers tell us that the vast majority of Canadians afflicted with a mental illness are wonderful, functioning people. They are our teachers, lawyers, waitresses, bus drivers; they are us, not "them."

My concern is how we dismantle the stigma that surrounds mental illness so the Canadians who are affected can feel no shame in getting the help they may need and deserve.

I am concerned about the layperson who reads the sensationalistic headlines after incidents such as the Connecticut shooting and then thinks of mental illness as a lifelong sentence of being feared and ostracized."

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=7730704

News Anchor Responds to Viewer Email Calling Her "Fat"

hpqp says...

>> ^scannex:

So your counter to the point of it being a behavior, is that it is term applied as the result of a series of behaviors which is a combination of over-eating and lack of exercise?
You must be kidding.
And sorry I have to put words in your mouth above, because aside from divine intervention I am not sure what mysterious factors cause one to be obese unless you are referring to genetic disorders/thyroid problems. Have fun finding a source on what % of obese Americans that covers.
It is behavioral, and its remedy is behavioral. I certainly will not say its an EASY behavior to modify (see previous arguments on leptin/dopamine), but you need to deal with it.
Also regarding what is impressionable you are simply incorrect. If you believe a child with two overweight parents that is the result of those parents having an idle lifestyle and providing garbage food for their kids isnt impactful youre dead wrong.
But here you go, some backup for that concept. From the AACAP
No one is advocating mocking is the right thing to do. And if you think this guys letter came from a place of hate or mockery I suggest you reread it. There really is no indication of that to me. It comes from a place of concern, even if that is misguided. You want to crucify this guy for trying to (perhaps poorly) encourage this woman to lose weight and that really isn't the right ethic either.

I realised why your comments annoyed me so much: they remind me of those MRA-holes who try to defend the missteps and/or bile of privileged/sexist people and then see them as being persecuted or "witchhunted". I can only hope I am wrong in seeing a connection.

To the substance: you completely miss my point, go after strawmen, and then try to defend the unethical while falsely accusing the anchor and myself of persecuting a person (instead of criticising a... you guessed it, behaviour).

Yes, certain behaviour causes and/or aggravates obesity, but do you see her glamourously binge-eating junkfood while telling the news? Unlike a meth addict, there are plenty of overweight people who are overweight of no fault of their own. In fact, the example you give about obese parents having a higher chance of having obese children supports my point, not yours. Children of obese parents have a higher risk of being obese genetically, as well as environmentally, and that has nothing to do with imitating the parents' behaviour (but it's their fault, right? They should just exercise and not eat what their parents feed them, right?). Of course the parents who feed their children junkfood are responsible for their child's obesity, but what does that have to do with an overweight woman being on TV? Not to mention that even that can be more complex, since there are socio-economic factors, what with the US's terrible education system and the fact that its cheapest high-calorie food (i.e. what poor/hungry people will buy) is 98% corn-syrup (yes, I made that stat up, but the point remains). Finally, obesity can be a side-product of mental health issues / eating disorders (but then maybe you're the kind of ignorant douche who'd tell people with depression to just stop wallowing in self-pity and be happy; I hope not).

You go on in your second comment to, on your own admission, redefine what a behaviour is so it can suit your argument. Say the following phrase, out loud if need be, to realise how ridiculous your argument is:

"The woman on the TV is behaving/being overweight/fat/obese". See what I mean?

Finally, you accuse her of "wanting to crucify the guy". Did you even read my points 1) & 2) above (you know, the ones you ignored in your answer)? The "guy" is not being attacked (you'll note he has been left anonymous), what he is saying/doing is. His letter is being taken as an example to call out a certain kind of behaviour, one which is rampant in our society, and doing much harm. Whether his letter is a well-intentioned yet ignorant expression of misplaced concern (at best, and highly unlikely) or a surreptitious piece of condescending shaming (much more likely*) is irrelevant. It's anti-bullying month, and she's saying "people, don't do this, and here's why".

Your more recent comment is a perfect example of why what she's doing is of utmost importance:

the spectacle this woman made of herself for someone writing her a private communique over the internet does not warrant ANYWHERE near this attention.
She chose to shine a spotlight on something perfectly hidden, for the purpose of, I don't know... you tell me? To stop imaginary bullying (in her case explicitly here)? To not feel bad about being overweight? I really don't know anymore. Its a bizarre reaction to wantonly make a spectacle of someone suggesting you lose weight.


If what he said was not reprehensible, who cares if it's made public (note once again that no names are named)? Shaming people or projecting one's narrowmindedness on them is all fine, but shhh, don't shed light on it! It's just a private message on the internet, it does no harm! (because we all know that there is no bullying, shaming, sexism, etc. on the internet. Nuh-uh)

When only one side of an exchange says "shhh, don't tell anyone about this, it's private" you usually have a bad situation; and the fact that you would defend the letter-writer and his "right" to not have his error called out does not suggest anything good about your own mindset, either.

In conclusion, it is all the more to this woman's (and her husband's/colleagues') credit that she/they took a "seemingly" (to the thickest out there) innocent letter to expose this form of abuse; a harmful remark need not be shocking or particularly vulgar to leave its mark, and it can even come from good intentions. Maybe some people watching will realise that the words they themselves speak/write are harmful, even if not intentionally, and will be more aware of it in future, while others might realise that the words they heard/read were not so innocent after all, and that they should stop beating themselves up for feeling guilt/shame/self-hate when in fact they've been being worn down by ignorant and/or hurtful attacks.

*It would be quite easy to analyse just how ignorant and condescending this letter is, not to mention borderline sexist (try imagining this person writing the same letter to Chris Christie, for example, replacing "girls" with "boys"). Analysis starter kit for you: "choice/habit/lifestyle", and the cornerstone phrase "Surely you don't..."

News Anchor Responds to Viewer Email Calling Her "Fat"

scannex says...

Well, how can I possibly counter that.
Your self asserted grasp on eating disorders far outstrips mine.
Also, Your comparison to Ebola is a ridiculous straw man that any reasonable person should be able to differentiate.
Normalization related to weightgain is the effect of a society getting ever fatter and people becoming less and less concerned with it, or less likely to avoid emulating it because it has every day prevalence and gains acceptance.
For your consideration here is Normalization

Your argument about a given method or therapy (I am not saying this guys letter was either) having a necessary outcome of positive would discredit EVERY attempt at getting someone to lose weight, as no method has 100% success or is necessarily "good/positive".

The act of pointing out that someone is heavy isn't nice. But, denying that vanity can cause people to want to change is just silly.

You trying to claim that my argument is that this is my preferred method is also silly and another straw man.

The implications/effect of this guys letter, as I am sure he is experiencing is by no means known, or reliable from individual to individual.

Every line of your post is more concerned with using falsified assertions of my position to try and better your argument all while failing to include references or anything substantive to debunk my actual arguments. It is not working.

>> ^NinjaInHeat:

I don't know what to say except again that it's pretty obvious you don't know the first thing about eating disorders.
How exactly does the American obesity problem equals the "normalization" of it? That's like saying the normalization of Ebola is a problem in Africa.
I'll give you this much, your idea of dealing with a problem is definitely an effective one.
Making a person super self-conscious about their physical appearance is a very effective way of having them change it. The problem here is that you to understand that effective doesn't necessarily equal good/positive.
Your idea of the proper way to deal with these issues is a scary one, more so for the fact you don't even realize what the implications of it are.


News Anchor Responds to Viewer Email Calling Her "Fat"

NinjaInHeat says...

I don't know what to say except again that it's pretty obvious you don't know the first thing about eating disorders.
How exactly does the American obesity problem equals the "normalization" of it? That's like saying the normalization of Ebola is a problem in Africa.

I'll give you this much, your idea of dealing with a problem is definitely an effective one.
Making a person super self-conscious about their physical appearance is a very effective way of having them change it. The problem here is that you to understand that effective doesn't necessarily equal good/positive.
Your idea of the proper way to deal with these issues is a scary one, more so for the fact you don't even realize what the implications of it are.


>> ^scannex:

>> ^NinjaInHeat:
Take a second to think about how TV "role models" usually look (or people "in the public eye" as scannex puts it).
What planet have you been living on where the "normalization of obesity" has become a problem?

>> ^scannex:
The normalization of obesity is a problem.



Oh, I don't know... how about this planet? Where the USA is the fattest developed country in the world?
Your text to link...
So yes... "F cking seriously".
You must be daft if you cannot discern between healthy weight, a supermodel and someone who is obese. Being underweight is dangerous as well, and you drawing the conclusion as to that is what we are after is silly.
This was a private letter SHE made public. You say that the opinion is that she is too fat to be on TV. Not the case, and not the suggestion of the letter. This PRIVATE letter was a plea to this woman's sensibilities in fashion less sugarcoated than she is used to.

News Anchor Responds to Viewer Email Calling Her "Fat"

NinjaInHeat says...

Seriously people? fucking seriously?

Do you even realize how hypocritical it is to justify this guy's letter with a self-righteous lecture about the dangers of obesity?
Take a second to think about how TV "role models" usually look (or people "in the public eye" as scannex puts it).
What planet have you been living on where the "normalization of obesity" has become a problem?

The nerve you would have to have to suggest in a letter that this woman is too fat to be shown on TV is only surpassed by the ignorance of believing that it would actually serve as a better example for our children.

It goes to show how little most people understand of the psychology of eating disorders.

Man, I can only dream of a day when all tv personalities are fit, imagine... utopia...
sigh





>> ^scannex:

The normalization of obesity is a problem.



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