@boom: Rogan's a brown belt in BJJ under Eddie Bravo, so yeah, he generally knows his stuff, especially for grappling. I still don't like him screaming, "HE'S ROCKED" every time somebody lands any punch that isn't a jab.

IMO, Bas Rutten is by far the most amusing and interesting commentator in MMA.

Ok Rembar, I thought my previous post might be misconstrued as an attack on MMA Judo BJJ police etc.

First I don't need to lay out my credentials, my points have to stand on their own merits, as well as do yours. The validity of a claim does not follow from the credibility of the source. But I will give my credentials anyway. 4 years of Judo, 2 while in HS, 2 in college, I have competed in several USJA tournaments in San Francisco, lost most of the matches, but I did win a few. My highest rank was a brown belt, and some would say I needed more time in to get that far. I know my way around a choke, from both ends. Beat time? None. Club security, 2 years. And you can get shot, stomped, and stabbed as easily as a cop.

That Said, I did not mean to criticise anything about fighting arts and competitions, just the application of chokes and strangles in subduing citizens. I will attempt to clarify my previous arguments.

1. The Health of persons being choked. The problem is not with the ease of choking, it is the ability to withstand and recover. Your average victim of a police incident is not an athlete, and in many instances is intoxicated. It is unequivocally more dangerous to cause an intoxicated person to go unconscious. In addition for most people, being choked can cause panic, which causes struggling that can lead to injuries not associated with the actual choke to both officers and suspects.

2. Excess adrenaline. I'll concede the point. Both cause much adrenaline to be spent. Although a good MMA fighter can control their emotions, and control the adrenaline to some extent.

3. Malice. What happens in a match when a guy is choked out, knocked out, or his joint is manipulated causing pain and damage? The ref stops the fight or someone taps out. In a police incident, the cop is the Ref. If the cop has malice, lookout, if the suspect gets the cops gun, or has a knife, bloodshed and death may follow. I'll take the malice evident in a controlled sporting event over the malice in a "real world" encounter any day. MMA guys just don't get stabbed, bitten, or shot, eye gouged, fishhooked etc. (ok maybe there has been some biting and fishhooking)

4. Poor Training. Duh right back at ya. The operative word here is POOR. Everyone reading this is not stupid. We know that cops need training in order to do their jobs without causing physical harm unnecessarily. It's a given. When training is inadequate, bad stuff happens. I think that was clear enough without additional comment.

I would like to comment on your points as well.

"I know the approximate times that my opponent will lose consciousness, will suffer permanent damage, and regain consciousness after the chokehold is released."

Really! Okay, the guys you practice with or fight ought to be similar, weight, age fitness. But how quickly will a 190 pound asthmatic college student who snorted meth all week take to pass out, and when will he wake up? Does he have a heart condition, suffer from panic attacks, have schizophrenia? These unknowns caused a french tourist in las vegas to die from a choke applied by metro several years back. By all accounts, the choke was applied properly. The taser is safer for the cop, as far as the suspect, I wouldn't guess that it is any safer.

"The Taser was developed to reduce the number of FIREARM-related deaths. FIREARM-RELATED DEATHS."

It was developed in response to a murder of 2 of the inventors friends as a non lethal weapon that did not classify as a fire arm and thus could be manufactured without the red tape the BATF would require. It was not actively marketed to police departments by taser int. until 1998. It was adopted by police departments as a non lethal weapon to be used to reduce officer injuries AND reduce shootings.

I do not have any arguments with your conclusion.

I don't know. Seems like he was asking for trouble. He didn't deserve the tasering, but what's the problem with providing ID and cooperating? Them's the rules, play by them.

On a tangent, this is why police should learn some good grappling (wrestling, judo, BJJ). A simple come-along wristlock or hammerlock would have saved a lot of trouble and pain for all parties involved.