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God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

Killing baby cows and pretending like your doing for the good of saving water LOL


At least the other guy has the balls to admit he likes eating them.

newtboy said:

Lol. Did I do that?

@HerbWatson said:
You've clearly got a lot to unload, I hope 2020 is a better year for you. You've got issues pal,

I'm sorry you feel my explanation is an attempt to argue. At least I didn't directly attribute those issues to you or otherwise personally insult you except for the fast and loose with facts bit, which I stand by....you can't say the same.

Maybe be correct instead of hyperbolic and exaggerating, and not disrespectfully snarky and passive aggressive when challenged and you'll have more pleasant discussions.

The miniscule amount of milk I drink means water use isn't my concern....but it is in a general big picture sense, especially if we all switch to non dairy milk as you suggested.

Have a Festive Festivus and a better 2020. Bye.

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

Wolves don't have a choice like you do.

Steak is only part of your choice, it comes with the added baggage of violence that is so horrific that we had to hide it from society, and make it illegal to film it.

You are paying for the entire package.

vil said:

Steak is definitely optional. I choose steak.

Killing only stops if there are no cows. If there are living cows they will die one day. In the wild pretty quickly if you apply your morals to wolves also.

A cow has no abstract concept of the fear of being eaten (only a general fear and instincts) so unless you purposefully go out of your way to hurt it there is nothing philosophically wrong with eating one, unless you get all emotional and make a complicated moral choice. Which is your choice to make.

Cavemen is a pretty wide term. I am probably smarter than most cavemen. But from the time they got organized and hunted large animals until now man has not really changed much - a couple of tens of thousands of years. We probably tend to remember less and be more depressed and weaker and use our senses less well. Can type faster though.

God damnit Chug.

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

I'd prefer they don't get bred in the first place, and that part falls on us, the customers, to make better choices at the supermarket.

You have the choice of not drinking any milk at all if you are genuinely concerned with water use.

newtboy said:

You would prefer they get put out in an unusable field to starve, as long as they aren't eaten? If they serve no purpose, they won't be cared for, but they'll still exist.

If the dairy industry is gone, beef ranchers would just fill the veal gap, so different young cows still die under that plan.

Switching to non dairy isn't ecologically sound too....especially with almond milk for many reasons.

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

I think you've mistaken my attempt at making polite conversation in the last post for hostility and accusations. I thought we could both share the humour in how people react to new ideas.....

You've clearly got a lot to unload given the amount of hyperbole you're spouting yourself, so I hope 2020 is a better year for you.

newtboy said:

Have I said any such things? I certainly don't recall saying any of that.
You must note, however, that the overreaction you get from some people likely stems from attempts to shame them using exaggeration, hyperbole, and even outright lies, which tend to make enemies to your cause rather than converts. I've never met a vegan that didn't operate that way to some degree. Perhaps those people are just giving back the same level of honest discussion and discourse they received. There's apparently something about veganism that makes it's practitioners think their movement is more important that fact and truth, like the "Dr." (and his followers) who claimed eating any amount of any red meat is just as carcinogenic as smoking a pack a day of cigarettes, citing WHO studies that said nothing of the sort. Many have said "If you agree with my goal, stopping animal suffering, why would you contradict my claims, even though I privately agree they're exaggeration and fantasy?". Ends don't justify means imo, and nothing justifies lying.

I don't need a degree in nutrition or to be a dietitian to understand the basics covered in multiple health classes I've passed and multiple scientific studies I've read. Is meat healthy? Yes....if it's raised and prepared properly and eaten in moderation. Is meat unhealthy? Yes...when eaten excessively or prepared unsafely.
Is veganism healthy? Yes....when practiced properly with a balanced diet that has all the nutrients humans need. Is veganism unhealthy? Yes...it is the way it's practiced by most vegans who don't have a grasp on what proper nutrition is. It's definitely harder to have a balanced healthy diet without any animal products, but isn't impossible.

Once again, I feel you are being fast and loose with fact by implying any of those statements have come from me. The only people I expect to die 6 times in a row are the ones in my dungeon that I'm keeping alive to prolong their torture....and they know what they did to deserve it. ;-)

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

These little cute cows are left overs from the dairy industry, so we don't need to kill these ones for steak.

If we buy dairy alternatives, then the killing of these young cows stops.

Anyway, give yourself some credit, you're definitely smarter than a caveman :-)

vil said:

People will eat other people if they have nothing else to eat. Social eating rules are mostly that, a social construct, born of too many options. If a group of people or an influential individual decide bananas have feelings, so be it. The whole eggs are good, eggs are bad debate.

Read the bible for instance, like a quarter of it deals with social constructs that make no sense today, including rules about food. Pick and choose.

Just because of this fancy belief steaks have gotten no less tasty or nourishing. You have to kill a cow to get steak, no way around it. If this one is too cute, find another cow.

People are basically the same since hunting mammoths was a thing. Bread is OK. Meat is good.

I realllllly dont feel like working today TBH.

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

Eh don't worry my friend, most vegans hate PETA, just like most non-rapists hate 3rd wave radical feminists. In either case it's not about being in a club, but doing good for the sake of it (or in these cases, not doing harm, which is a lot easier than putting in effort to do something good).

Payback said:

I've always found it funny that vegans never figured out that attacking people for their behaviour and/or beliefs will usually cause the victim to become more adamant. Like, I can almost agree with them, but being onside with arrogant, narcissistic blowhards makes me physically nauseous.

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

Food shaming? I know all about that.

Apparently all I eat is grass, my teeth will rot, my bones will be weak, and I'll die 6 times in a row from protein deficiency. That's just on the daily. Despite me never eating meat in my 51 years of life (Indian parents).

The real clever people like to tell me that I'll make the cows go extinct, and the next person will tell me that the cows will overpopulate the earth if we don't eat them.

Don't worry about doing a degree in nutrition, just tell someone you don't eat animal foods, and they'll become a dietitian in about 4 seconds :-)

newtboy said:

Please don't be a stereotype and food shame non vegans, especially if you're going to be fast and loose with facts to do it.

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

Well milk is bovine

Large populations of our species just has got it's milks mixed up.

Certainly the thought of pig milk, or dog milk would make any person retch, but we've been conditioned to think that for some reason cows milk is also for us. So much so that we'll kill this little fellow just get his mother's milk. Of course we'll kill her too once her milk no longer flows economically enough. We'll hide it and call it humane to make ourselves feel like good civilised people, even perhaps decide that we need milk, even though most of the world doesn't and is healthier for it.

Payback said:

Bovine equivalent of making milk bubbles...

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

The reason for my comment was to point out that people clearly adore this animal (if the up votes are anything to go by), and the disparity of how this animal will be treated.

Indeed if we did even the most humane slaughter to our pets, we would call it hell, and be arrested for our barbarism. But for a cow? It's legal, but even still we better hide it away.

I wonder how many people would have upvoted this video if we saw the rest of the farming process, as "humane" as it is.

visionep said:

I didn't straw man anything. His argument was that the animal is about to "go through hell" in "a few days".

My counter is that the animal is not going to go through hell (not abused) and will be living for more than a few days. I backed that assertion up with facts that I am familiar with for the subject matter. I didn't even mention other inaccuracies about the butchering process that really have nothing to do with the animal going "through hell" since it has been rendered unconscious before anything happens.

Does every fact in his description have to be 100% false for his overall analysis to be repudiated? Seems like a high bar for challenging an opinion.

God damnit Chug.

HerbWatson says...

To put some context here, this calf was separated from his mother to become veal. So it's easy to say "aww cute" but this creature is about to go through hell for somebody's sandwich.

This is what will happen to this calf within a few days: [url redacted]

He will be beaten and thrown onto the truck. He will have his head crushed by a bolt gun to knock him unconscious, and then he will be hung up my one leg and have his throat slit to kill him, and his unconscious body will choke on this own blood.

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