Crossing a street 15 feet from the crosswalk == FUCK IT, IT'S ON

Another cop gone wild.

*nsfw

Video is already flagged NSFW - ignoring nsfw request by vaporlock.

Yeah, ignore that...

so, links to news stories about this?

*promote

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, June 15th, 2010 11:01am PDT - promote requested by lavoll.

>> ^lavoll:

so, links to news stories about this?
promote


http://tinyurl.com/2wpb68w

My god this guy needs to learn how to handcuff

Anyone who does not submit to the police state are TERRORISTS!

Ya know, I'm not too broken up about this one.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Seattle, officer, punches, girl, face, jaywalking, stop, confrontation' to 'Seattle, police, officer, ian walsh, punches, girl, face, jaywalking, stop, confrontation' - edited by kronosposeidon

that cop needs to go back to the academy. not because he punched her in the face, because he completely ignores any police procedure i've ever heard of or seen.

I was hoping the citizenry would jump in and beat the living shit out of that cop.

People thought he was in the wrong, so the situation was going to get much more dangerous. My question is why the hell would you have to lay hands down on a J-Walking citation. Those J-Walkers must have been dancing in the middle of the street. Small potatoes man.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/96413004.html

Things are looking up in Jet City. The cops are finally bringing the jaywalking menace to its knees. Score another one for law and order.

As justified as it was awesome!

[redacted]

unbelievable.

You give a man a badge and a uniform, and he loses all sense of humanity.

>> ^Mcboinkens:
Wasn't one resisting arrest and the other interfering with arrest? It wasn't polite but at least he didn't use a taser. Not saying it was justified, but she kind of brought it upon herself.


Agreed. The cop's already wrestling with the one girl (no real context unfortunately as how that started), the other girl jumps in and shoves the cop... Yeah, maybe decking her was harsh but if you attack a cop they aren't exactly going to go easy on you at that point.

Don't worry, the police are investigating it, everything is under control here.

>> ^shponglefan:

>> ^Mcboinkens:
Wasn't one resisting arrest and the other interfering with arrest? It wasn't polite but at least he didn't use a taser. Not saying it was justified, but she kind of brought it upon herself.

Agreed. The cop's already wrestling with the one girl (no real context unfortunately as how that started), the other girl jumps in and shoves the cop... Yeah, maybe decking her was harsh but if you attack a cop they aren't exactly going to go easy on you at that point.


Not even to mention that he has a crowd surrounding him.

I felt worse for the cop on this one.

I have been toying with the situation for a bit now. The problem is when does this video kick in. Is she resisting arrest, or was she shrugging off contact that had no place or context. The video kicks in with his hand on her neck and back. Why are his hands here? When I was placed under arrest, I basically had to surrender myself. I had to place my hands crossed behind my back and he gently placed the cuffs on. There was, in essence, no physical contact. Had such non-violent attempts be made, or had violence been the first attempt for arrest.

Also, was she actually under arrest at that point, or just being issued the citation and unwarranted contact was made? That context basically makes or breaks the officers guilt. If, for any reason, she physically resisted even a wrongful arrest, then we have to blame the shitty laws and the woman. If, however, she was shrugging off unwarranted contact and that was the cause of the struggle and the "resistance to arrest", then we have a real problem with the officers handling of the situation. He would of basically made a situation out of nothing.

Basically, this video provides more questions than answers.

isn't there bunch of drugs laying on the hood of the car?
jaywalking was a probable cause to start a search which yielded drugs which caused arrest.
punch in the face might have been a bit unprofessional, but otherwise what that cop was doing was proper.
especially with that angry mob surrounding him.

Face punching is a legitimate physical recourse to pacify a 17 year old girl?
Fuck you.

[redacted]

I was always told if you have to put your hands someone at the hard physical force level (force continuum) you are probably arresting them at that point. Cop should turned her around and cuffed the woman and tossed her into the back of the car.

Here's what I think happened. Officer went to ticket woman for jay walking, woman was pissed about it. Got loud, or threatening, which can be interpreted as simple assault. The rest is on camera.

Police Humor, which you can see Bruce Willis do on Live Free Die Hard, he says something to the fake dispatch about 587s, which means for that movie, naked people. The best code you want to hear is "Uh, Dispatch we got a boatload of 314s. Going to need backup, copy?" Which means, generally, there's a boat load of naked people. 314 is the California penal code for when someone exposes themselves in public, or for public view, generally someone naked in a place they should not be naked at.

I abstain.

I'm with you on this one. It's not like she was cooperating and NOT getting physical with the cop and he just poped her out of the blue. You don't just walk up to a cop while he is in the process of arresting someone and grab them and push them away.>> ^alizarin:

I felt worse for the cop on this one.

The video starts off, without much context (i.e. a start point), and after the issue has already started. From this video, it is not clear why the officer is dealing with the person in question. That is not the fault of the officer, but the person with the camera. Someone mentioned, this was started due to jay-walking. While not a crime often pursued, it is a crime in most cities and quite alot of towns in the USA. So, in a sense, the officer is well within his right to speak to the suspect and question them. But this *ISNT* in the video.

Now, when the second person assaults the officer, the officer is well within his right to defend himself. Maybe that girl should be lucky he didn't pull out his sidearm and point it at her! Likewise, a crowd forming around one, lone, officer, whom are behaving more like a mob to lynch, then to gank; should make any law enforcement person concern.

A person is considered INNOCENT until proven GUILTY! Whether its the suspect(s) or the police officer.

ya, cop definitely needs some "compliance" training. there are many many ways to cuff someone far more efficiently. I just saw him fumbling around. given the situation, especially considering this cop was by himself, im surprised he made it out unscathed. dumb bitches, in what fucking fantasy world do they live in where they think they can shove and assault an officer making an arrest or citation

the experts analysis at the end is pretty spot on

i'd back his use of force 100%

police state my fucking ass, fucking angry mob state in this case

Yeah, I'm kinda leaning towards the no-context one here. The punch is a bit much, but the guy is getting overwhelmed and you could very easily argue self-defense here. This isn't some waif of a wall-flower, both women are putting up quite a physical resistance and seem to hit him as well.

Now, if we had the complete video before it kicks in, then I might be able to form a better opinion, but right now I'd say not enough information.

It's pretty simple. The girl in pink assaulted the police officer. Assaulting a police officer (or anyone) is a crime. It also forces him to escalate the force being used (as, obviously, the force he was using before the punch was not sufficient to keep things under control).

The sheep are always fearful, distrustful and even hateful of the police, but they're very quick to run into their arms when the bad guys come along or hate them even more if they don't save their ass fast enough.

Normally police brutality videos anger me, but I don't consider this in that category. You should not tell a police officer to get off you when he's instructing you to do something. You also CANNOT interfere and shove the officer away. Just as much a duty it is for them to be fair and respectful, citizens should do the same. I'm not saying we should all fall in line like a bunch of drones, but there has to be give and take. We can't bitch that the police are brutal assholes all the time, then start shoving, pulling and not complying at the same time.

The cop let this situation get out of hand. First of all he was taking things a little too personal, considering he was surrounded by a crowd. The crowd definitely considered the cop the problem, not the girls. I agree that this is not another police brutality video. It's just another poorly trained cop.

I love how all the "community leaders" always use the "but" excuse.

"We know she assaulted that police officer, BUT..."

>> ^NordlichReiter:

I was hoping the citizenry would jump in and beat the living shit out of that cop.
People thought he was in the wrong, so the situation was going to get much more dangerous. My question is why the hell would you have to lay hands down on a J-Walking citation. Those J-Walkers must have been dancing in the middle of the street. Small potatoes man.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/96413004.html


Jesus Christ dude. So, should Seattle cops just not ticket or arrest anyone anymore? Like it or not, j-walking is a crime, mostly because people shouldn't be mowed down in the streets. It's this whole traffic/lights/crosswalk system we've developed, you may have seen it on some intersections near your area.

I watched a friend get ticketed for j-walking in downtown LA, and while it sucked, I totally didn't feel the need to start a fight with the cops.

Fuck that cop, and fuck the people around not beating the shit out of him after he hit the girl. Everyone turns into a fucking pussy when someone shows a fucking badge. I cant comprehend how almost everyone feels obliged to listen to these pigs no matter what and no matter what no one will retaliate against one. Fuck cops.

No Look again... (1:50)
Its a Styrofoam Sandwich/hamburger package and some napkins - someone was eating lunch.

Don't start seeing things that aren't there.

>> ^mxxcon:

isn't there bunch of drugs laying on the hood of the car?
jaywalking was a probable cause to start a search which yielded drugs which caused arrest.
punch in the face might have been a bit unprofessional, but otherwise what that cop was doing was proper.
especially with that angry mob surrounding him.

>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:
Fuck that cop, and fuck the people around not beating the shit out of him after he hit the girl. Everyone turns into a fucking pussy when someone shows a fucking badge. I cant comprehend how almost everyone feels obliged to listen to these pigs no matter what and no matter what no one will retaliate against one. Fuck cops.


So... you'd prefer to live in Anarchy Land(TM)?

I'd like to live in a free country where cops can't abuse their power because citizens will stand up to their bullshit if they do abuse that power. Right now people act like cops are gods among men.

I see three stupid people in this video.

It was justified. She attacked him, he tried to stop her a bit heavy-handed. How else should he have handled it? He could have tased here and that would have been ok too.

He was in a shitty situation there too, with many people interfering "are you serious" etc. luckily no one directly intervened, because that could have ended badly.

I'm grateful that we're turning into a generation of video cameras; everything is recorded, it makes it much easier to discern the truth. In the news this would likely have been reported simply as "Violent cop attacks onlooker" or something similar, which is just disingenuous.

The cop was completely justified here. He just needs to learn some better take-down techniques, so he doesn't have to wrestle with the girl for so long (the reason for that wasn't revealed here - but an un-educated guess would be
a) he attacks her for no good reason
b) he's arresting her for a reason and she resists/panics.

b is far more likely in my mind.

Dunno, black dude in light blue shirt looks like he thought shit was going down and was trying to keep black girl in the pink from getting involved. So, one person there thought it was a good idea to let the cop make his arrest instead of interfering.

And when she got hit black dude in light blue shirt was still trying to pull her away more forcefully.

Girl being arrest throughout most the video, from what can be seen was pretty being pretty irrational, just repeating the same things over and over and fighting back...and not calmly at any point. So unless that cop was trying something really serious prior to the video starting up....I think he was in the right since she seemed to emotionally distressed to deal with the situation calmly. Otherwise, crying or acting out would be an automatic get out of a ticket. Just as if a police officer pulled someone over for some traffic violation and the guy behind the wheel was screaming and raging about him stopping him (like a drastic over reaction that doesn't subside as seen in video)...he should detain him as well for his own safety and the safety of others because he isn't safe to be on the roads.

Crowd gathering....she wasn't in mortal danger, so them filming is probably the best bet to have the truth of the situation brought out. But I have to say the video reminds me of the court shows you see on TV when they get upset and keep repeating the same stuff over and over louder and louder so you can't hear what the other side is saying. Even the guy shooting the video was doing it when the cop punch the girl in pink who was getting physically involved in it.

And girl in pink backed down pretty quick when he socked her in the face, so I don't think she was expecting to have a man try to hurt her back. I think he was just trying to arrest the girl without seriously hurting her, because there are some arm locks you can get a person in where it'll break or dislocate the arm if they keep struggling. And they are bad enough to make the UFC guys who take punches and kicks to the head to tap out instead of dealing with recovery from the damage the hold can do.

Cop was assaulted during an arrest. Procedure doesn't mean dick at that point.

That cop wasn't assaulted until he assaulted the first girl. It was a fucking jaywalking stop or ticket, why the fuck should he have his hands on that first girl and why the fuck is it ok for the cop to slam her into the car? That seems perfectly fine to everyone but helping your friend who's being manhandled is wrong cause the cops doing the manhandling.

edit: sorry for all the fucks, this shit bugs me and it bugs me that the majority are ok with it.

People keep bringing up the girl being 17 as if it matters. She looks like she's got about 30lbs over the officer; she's a potential threat no matter how old she is.

You don't resist arrest, even if you're completely innocent. People are way too hung up on arrest. It's not a big deal. You go down to the station, they take your information, file reports, maybe you spend the night in jail if it was serious enough and nobody is willing to pay your bail.

Now, if you're wrongly found guilty in court, then it's time to raise hell.

Yea guilty till proven innocent.

Wow. A whole bunch of people in a thread, who think they've had some form of police training and/or DF in a police setting. And know the UoF mandate, and all that. Breaking news! That area the kids from the local highschool actively engage in baiting of cars across a major intersection. There is a walkway above the roadway which they refuse to use.

Second thing, title of video is misleading. She wasn't punched for jaywalking, she was punched for assaulting an officer. I'll now return you to your warped world view, where all of you are experts and have no training. Unlike some of us.

>> ^Mashiki:

Wow. A whole bunch of people in a thread, who think they've had some form of police training and/or DF in a police setting. And know the UoF mandate, and all that. Breaking news! That area the kids from the local highschool actively engage in baiting of cars across a major intersection. There is a walkway above the roadway which they refuse to use.
Second thing, title of video is misleading. She wasn't punched for jaywalking, she was punched for assaulting an officer. I'll now return you to your warped world view, where all of you are experts and have no training. Unlike some of us.



Mashiki can you explain to me any reason why the cop was touching the first girl? What is the proper procedure when a officer see's someone jaywalking?

Well in any case, being put under arrest for something small and acting like that is not helping your position in anyway. You appear to have mental issues that makes it unsafe for them to leave you alone, or you are trying to not get caught for something else, or you have something really important you need to get to. Which in case 1 and 2, is not helping your cause of proving your not unstable or that you're not carrying something else you can get busted for. And 3, unless the cop is just TOTALLY wrong on what he law he saw you violate is not helping you, calmly explaining why you need to be somewhere especially if it's a life and death thing...most cops would probably help you get there quicker and safer.

And if the cop is totally wrong, in court you appear to be more in the "right" if you don't add resisting arrest and "batshit crazy" to your arrest report. Because it doesn't appear that the cop was having a bad judgment day then, it appears he was doing his job and promoting safety by taking your crazy/drugged ass off the streets.

Besides, ask yourself this: Would my opinion change if it were two black men? Would my opinion change if it were two white women? Would my opinion change if it were two white men? In my case two men doing that, I would have been shocked if the cop hadn't draw weapons because I certainly would have and would expect of any person who has them at his disposal to do so when there's multiple attackers.

How do you know what happened before the video started rolling? How can you say with such certainty "that cop wasn't assaulted until he assaulted the first girl"? I don't know what happened beforeeither...but it looks to me like he's got his hands full when the video starts with two grown females that are resisting arrest...verbally and physically attacking him. These guys put their lives on the line protecting us and while that doesn't give them the right to go over the line it does deserve the respect to just chill the fuck out and go through the process without screaming at him "I didn't do anything" the whole time you are shoving and pushing him and resisting arrest. >> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:

That cop wasn't assaulted until he assaulted the first girl. It was a fucking jaywalking stop or ticket, why the fuck should he have his hands on that first girl and why the fuck is it ok for the cop to slam her into the car? That seems perfectly fine to everyone but helping your friend who's being manhandled is wrong cause the cops doing the manhandling.
edit: sorry for all the fucks, this shit bugs me and it bugs me that the majority are ok with it.

Man you equate mental health issues with a kid freaking out cause some guy comes and grabs you for crossing the street? Then proceeds to slam you into a car... Gettin mad and yelling back = mental issue? Give me a break.


I don't care if you're a cop, a judge, or fucking Obama himself, you don't hit a woman like that and you especially don't do it to fucking kids. I can't fucking comprehend how anyone can say it's ok.


Edit: @ grim, well why give the cop the benefit of the doubt and not give it to the citizen they are supposed to be serving and protecting?

You really don't understand how the justice system works do you? If you are being arrested for something you did not do that does not give you the right to resist arrest and it doesn't mean your "guilty till proven innocent". Is that what you believe? If your innocent you should resist arrest?>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:

Yea guilty till proven innocent.

context from a guy who was there:
young man gets stopped for jaywalking. Cop wants to arrest him and the girls get angry and start yelling. Cop grabs smaller girl and twists her arm behind her back to the point of pain. Bigger girl tries to separate them and gets punched in the face. Even if you just saw the video it looked to me like a man being rough with a much smaller person. The bigger woman tries to separate them and gets punched. take the word cop out of the situation and the man should be the one in trouble for assault. as far as the law stands the cop is just dumb as he will cost society millions if the girl gets a felony when there was no need for anything more than a simple verbal warning for safety's sake. I hope we will see more people resisting being arrested for nothing but resisting arrest. System needs to give people the right to resist a wrongful arrest so we can stop that bit of legal catch-22. Tons of people get arrested for resisting arrest without any other charges
-karl

How else he could have handled it:
1. warn the guy about jaywalking.
2. leave

or, if the girls were yelling at him as soon as he approached the kid:
1. calm everybody the fuck down.
2. warn the kid
3. leave

or, after he grabbed the small girl and tried to arrest her:
1. When the Bigger girl separates him from the smaller girl, back off a few steps.
2. calm everybody down
3. warn all three kids re: behavior and jaywalking
4. leave

-Karl

Just a reality point here. Women are more violent and assaultive then men, these days especially when it comes to police.
>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:
I don't care if you're a cop, a judge, or fucking Obama himself, you don't hit a woman like that and you especially don't do it to fucking kids. I can't fucking comprehend how anyone can say it's ok.



Basic ticket, you're going to detain the person to write the ticket. Whether that's in the car or outside. First rule of anything, you're always in control of the situation. If you're not in control, or you lose control you do with whatin reason to regain or control it. In the video she's being assaultive, that's it. Second thing, most places with traffic law(that includes there), have a section covering "removal of a person from a roadway/highway, for their own safety". Which WA does.

>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:


Mashiki can you explain to me any reason why the cop was touching the first girl? What is the proper procedure when a officer see's someone jaywalking?

I wish the people rooting on the officer could spend a week with over-aggressive cops in their neighborhood. Perhaps a sucker punch to your mother's or sister's face for leaving dog crap on the sidewalk will open your eyes.

As self righteous as some of you are, I doubt you would quietly be arrested if you thought the cop was wrong.

>> ^swedishfriend:

context from a guy who was there:
young man gets stopped for jaywalking. Cop wants to arrest him and the girls get angry and start yelling. C


Sounds like this person wasn't actually there. The girls were the ones who were jaywalking, which is why they were also cited for it.

btw: what's your source for "a guy"?

Perfectly worded. Agreed.>> ^swedishfriend:

How else he could have handled it:
1. warn the guy about jaywalking.
2. leave
or, if the girls were yelling at him as soon as he approached the kid:
1. calm everybody the fuck down.
2. warn the kid
3. leave
or, after he grabbed the small girl and tried to arrest her:
1. When the Bigger girl separates him from the smaller girl, back off a few steps.
2. calm everybody down
3. warn all three kids re: behavior and jaywalking
4. leave
-Karl

http://www.kxl.com/pages/7471948.php

"Police said Monday's incident began about 3:10 p.m. when the officer was driving north along Martin Luther King Jr. Way. The officer saw an 18-year-old man jaywalk across the busy street about 15 feet from a pedestrian overpass. After the officer stopped the man, he saw four women jaywalk at the same location and ordered them to come over to his patrol car, police reports say. At that point, the women became verbally antagonistic, and one turned and began walking away, police said.

When the officer approached her and began escorting her back to his car, the report says, she tensed and pulled away, ignoring his order to put her hands on the patrol car. By then, a crowd had gathered. Police said the officer then began trying to handcuff her."


Apparently breaking a law, then refusing police orders, and then pushing a police officer is somehow OK and according to Nordlich, the officer should've been beaten to shit by an angry mob.

Just, wow.


edit/update: Both of these "poor girls", Angel L. Rosenthal, and her friend, Marilyn Ellen Levias, have criminal records. Angel's is pretty hefty.
http://dw.courts.wa.gov

So?

Innocent until proven guilty. No double jeopardy.

And of course the police would give an account favorable to the cops.


>> ^volumptuous:
http://www.kxl.com/pages/7471948.php
"Police said Monday's incident began about 3:10 p.m. when the officer was driving north along Martin Luther King Jr. Way. The officer saw an 18-year-old man jaywalk across the busy street about 15 feet from a pedestrian overpass. After the officer stopped the man, he saw four women jaywalk at the same location and ordered them to come over to his patrol car, police reports say. At that point, the women became verbally antagonistic, and one turned and began walking away, police said.
When the officer approached her and began escorting her back to his car, the report says, she tensed and pulled away, ignoring his order to put her hands on the patrol car. By then, a crowd had gathered. Police said the officer then began trying to handcuff her."
Apparently breaking a law, then refusing police orders, and then pushing a police officer is somehow OK and according to Nordlich, the officer should've been beaten to shit by an angry mob.
Just, wow.
edit/update: Both of these "poor girls", Angel L. Rosenthal, and her friend, Marilyn Ellen Levias, have criminal records. Angel's is pretty hefty.
http://dw.courts.wa.gov

>> ^longde:

I wish the people rooting on the officer could spend a week with over-aggressive cops in their neighborhood. Perhaps a sucker punch to your mother's or sister's face for leaving dog crap on the sidewalk will open your eyes.
As self righteous as some of you are, I doubt you would quietly be arrested if you thought the cop was wrong.

Tip: If you have problems with the cops in your neighborhood you have a recourse. It's called going down to the precinct/station and filing a complaint.


Considering dog shit isn't anywhere near as to grabbing a cop when they're already dealing with someone, you don't have much of a clue. Maybe you could go and head out on a few ride alongs and find out what it's like to deal with the assholes and shitrats of society. But nah that's beyond you. But just remember, back about 4-10 years ago...no one wanted to be cops. So for all those bad cops you got, you're reaping what you've sown. Many of the cops that have been hired in the US in the last 10yrs don't fit the grade because they would hire anyone, because of mass shortages. But that really doesn't excuse people for being idiots and thinking that they're above the law, and can assault a cop.

And just to add an extra bit. If I was out on beat, and you spit on me. You'd be eating the sidewalk and getting an assault charge with it.

I don't know who you think you're talking to with your keyboard threats.

If I was stupid enough to get in a position that would let you do that, and you were stupid enough to try, you would never be able to retire. I'd make sure your pension was given to my kids and my lawyers.


>> ^Mashiki:
>> ^longde:
I wish the people rooting on the officer could spend a week with over-aggressive cops in their neighborhood. Perhaps a sucker punch to your mother's or sister's face for leaving dog crap on the sidewalk will open your eyes.
As self righteous as some of you are, I doubt you would quietly be arrested if you thought the cop was wrong.

Tip: If you have problems with the cops in your neighborhood you have a recourse. It's called going down to the precinct/station and filing a complaint.
Considering dog shit isn't anywhere near as to grabbing a cop when they're already dealing with someone, you don't have much of a clue. Maybe you could go and head out on a few ride alongs and find out what it's like to deal with the assholes and shitrats of society. But nah that's beyond you. But just remember, back about 4-10 years ago...no one wanted to be cops. So for all those bad cops you got, you're reaping what you've sown. Many of the cops that have been hired in the US in the last 10yrs don't fit the grade because they would hire anyone, because of mass shortages. But that really doesn't excuse people for being idiots and thinking that they're above the law, and can assault a cop.
And just to add an extra bit. If I was out on beat, and you spit on me. You'd be eating the sidewalk and getting an assault charge with it.

Browsing through the records....

Angel Rosenthal has Theft and Robbery charges.
Marilyn Levias has Assault charges.

Anyway, jaywalking is a really bad problem at one intersection I have to go through all the time since it's near work. So, I'd like to see cops bust people more for it personally. It causes major traffic problems and has led to accidents due to vehicles trying to avoid running over the jaywalkers as they dart into traffic at random locations and cross when the crosswalk tells them not to. It's especially bad on the green arrow turn lanes, they constantly cross at that point and you got cars in the intersection held up because people are crossing. I know one guy got mowed down in the middle of winter for being out in the street in the dark with dark clothes on, it wasn't the first guy to jaywalk in the pitch black and won't be the last. Bus jaywalking is the worst of them all, they get off the public transport bus and run across 4 lanes of traffic where at least one direction can't see them at all until they've already entered traffic and it tends to be 5+ people..

It's dangerous as hell for everyone on or next to the road, and that's why there are laws preventing it. I could see warning people if they do it in light traffic, but if it's a heavy traffic area I think it warrants a ticketing and perhaps so did the police officer.


>> ^volumptuous:

http://www.kxl.com/pages/7471948.php
"Police said Monday's incident began about 3:10 p.m. when the officer was driving north along Martin Luther King Jr. Way. The officer saw an 18-year-old man jaywalk across the busy street about 15 feet from a pedestrian overpass. After the officer stopped the man, he saw four women jaywalk at the same location and ordered them to come over to his patrol car, police reports say. At that point, the women became verbally antagonistic, and one turned and began walking away, police said.
When the officer approached her and began escorting her back to his car, the report says, she tensed and pulled away, ignoring his order to put her hands on the patrol car. By then, a crowd had gathered. Police said the officer then began trying to handcuff her."

Apparently breaking a law, then refusing police orders, and then pushing a police officer is somehow OK and according to Nordlich, the officer should've been beaten to shit by an angry mob.
Just, wow.

edit/update: Both of these "poor girls", Angel L. Rosenthal, and her friend, Marilyn Ellen Levias, have criminal records. Angel's is pretty hefty.
http://dw.courts.wa.gov

Who said anything about a threat? Projecting much. I enjoy pointing out the obvious, and sorry position doesn't make any difference. If you were stupid enough to do it, you'd pay for it too, at the end of the day.

Fun tip point: Pensions are protected, and so is reasonable force under the law in terms of assault. But you'd by and far enjoy losing don't worry. Plenty of case law on it.

>> ^longde:

I don't know who you think you're talking to with your keyboard threats.
If I was stupid enough to get in a position that would let you do that, and you were stupid enough to try, you would never be able to retire. I'd make sure your pension was given to my kids and my lawyers.

>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:
I'd like to live in a free country where cops can't abuse their power because citizens will stand up to their bullshit if they do abuse that power. Right now people act like cops are gods among men.


And I would like two women at one time, a classic car, friends from all over the world who love and adore me, my own country, and a pickle. Sadly, I only have the car and pickle right now...

Your fantasy is a delusion. Think about it... Cops = people + authority... Meaning that if you were a cop, you would do the same thing! Also, imagine one of the attackers pulling a knife. As quick as dead. A crowd gets out of control and one dead cop. But you don't care about the cop, his family or anything. In fact, I don't think you care about the "victims" either... I think you just hate.

I was surrounded by a crowd once and unaided by the local fat-police that refused to help me (I am not a cop btw.) It could have been one dead DeeDaw in a manner of minutes. Thank god for my blame-displacement tongue...

I was also followed by a crack head because I told her to leave my neighborhood after she was in my yard and scared my wife and children. She followed me so close, asked if I was scared in a threatening manner and I was thinking, "You damn right, I cannot stand getting cut." Instead I just glared and she slinked away.

>> ^volumptuous:

http://www.kxl.com/pages/7471948.php
"Police said Monday's incident began about 3:10 p.m. when the officer was driving north along Martin Luther King Jr. Way. The officer saw an 18-year-old man jaywalk across the busy street about 15 feet from a pedestrian overpass. After the officer stopped the man, he saw four women jaywalk at the same location and ordered them to come over to his patrol car, police reports say. At that point, the women became verbally antagonistic, and one turned and began walking away, police said.
When the officer approached her and began escorting her back to his car, the report says, she tensed and pulled away, ignoring his order to put her hands on the patrol car. By then, a crowd had gathered. Police said the officer then began trying to handcuff her."

Apparently breaking a law, then refusing police orders, and then pushing a police officer is somehow OK and according to Nordlich, the officer should've been beaten to shit by an angry mob.
Just, wow.

edit/update: Both of these "poor girls", Angel L. Rosenthal, and her friend, Marilyn Ellen Levias, have criminal records. Angel's is pretty hefty.
http://dw.courts.wa.gov


I figured that's how it went. I drive up MLK every once in a while. There's a great butcher in Columbia City.

There is a lot of jaywalking in Seattle. I do it all the time. I look both ways and take responsibility for myself. I've even seen police pull over to talk with jaywalkers. Every time I've seen it, the police officer scolds them and sometimes forces them to walk another whole minute to an actual cross walk.

So let's be honest about this situation. It seems that the police officer stopped the women for jaywalking and they blew up. Ever seen a cop try to give a warning and have antagonist people turn the situation into way more than it had to be. I think at that point, most cops internally say fuck it and arrest the offenders. Then they physically resisted.

The cop needs to take some training with emphasis on some effective holds to quickly subdue the person he is trying to arrest.

As for hitting a woman... I'm a gentleman, but if a woman is attacking me, I'll punch her. It is utter b.s. to dismiss the consequences of someone's action just because of their sex. Maybe I read too many Louis L'Amour books as a kid.

>> ^swedishfriend:
How else he could have handled it:
1. warn the guy about jaywalking.
2. leave
or, if the girls were yelling at him as soon as he approached the kid:
1. calm everybody the fuck down.
2. warn the kid
3. leave
or, after he grabbed the small girl and tried to arrest her:
1. When the Bigger girl separates him from the smaller girl, back off a few steps.
2. calm everybody down
3. warn all three kids re: behavior and jaywalking
4. leave
-Karl


Except? What? THey would have still been pissed, blamed him and probably kept doing what they always will do. The thing about authority, any kind of authority, is that if you never use it, as you suggest, you don't have it.

>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:
Man you equate mental health issues with a kid freaking out cause some guy comes and grabs you for crossing the street? Then proceeds to slam you into a car... Gettin mad and yelling back = mental issue? Give me a break.
I don't care if you're a cop, a judge, or fucking Obama himself, you don't hit a woman like that and you especially don't do it to fucking kids. I can't fucking comprehend how anyone can say it's ok.
Edit: @ grim, well why give the cop the benefit of the doubt and not give it to the citizen they are supposed to be serving and protecting?


Because the citizens do not back off. They only make matters worse.

I am not saying punching a woman in the face is okay, but neither is enciting a near hysteria in a group right either...

It looked like you were directing your threat of violence at me; if not, no harm no foul.

And as far as pensions go, think again. In this day and age, noone is exempt from losing benefits and a pension. There are plenty of police pension plans that stipulate the terms under which an officer can lose his pension. Abuse of authority and becoming a liability to the department through bad conduct are two common situations that a pension can be taken away.

That's why (smart) cops don't abuse people with perceived affluence and/or lawyers.>> ^Mashiki:
Who said anything about a threat? Projecting much. I enjoy pointing out the obvious, and sorry position doesn't make any difference. If you were stupid enough to do it, you'd pay for it too, at the end of the day.
Fun tip point: Pensions are protected, and so is reasonable force under the law in terms of assault. But you'd by and far enjoy losing don't worry. Plenty of case law on it.
>> ^longde:
I don't know who you think you're talking to with your keyboard threats.
If I was stupid enough to get in a position that would let you do that, and you were stupid enough to try, you would never be able to retire. I'd make sure your pension was given to my kids and my lawyers.

That crowd was anything but hysterical. They stuck around to make sure the situation was resolve in the right way.>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:
Man you equate mental health issues with a kid freaking out cause some guy comes and grabs you for crossing the street? Then proceeds to slam you into a car... Gettin mad and yelling back = mental issue? Give me a break.
I don't care if you're a cop, a judge, or fucking Obama himself, you don't hit a woman like that and you especially don't do it to fucking kids. I can't fucking comprehend how anyone can say it's ok.
Edit: @ grim, well why give the cop the benefit of the doubt and not give it to the citizen they are supposed to be serving and protecting?

Because the citizens do not back off. They only make matters worse.
I am not saying punching a woman in the face is okay, but neither is enciting a near hysteria in a group right either...

I wish I had a pickle

I don't think I would react that way at all. I care about people that get stepped on by others and not for the person doing the stepping. I don't think that cop should die for what he did but I would love to see some street justice on his ass for hitting a kid, fuck the gender issue. Hell even if it was an adult I'd still be saying wtf.

I just think its fucked up that cops can manhandle people, put people under arrest, or taze someone for talking back or not submitting and becoming their bitch for the duration of the stop. And if someone has the balls to help the person in trouble or the person in trouble resists in any way, the they are fucked. Don't matter if you were right or if the cop was using too much force or anything because if you put a finger on one of them your done. Because in the eyes of most people cops are gods among men.

In my eyes they are just regular damn people with a blue shit and a shiny little badge. And I know lots of people would agree that if you saw someone without that shiny badge treating especially a kid that way, youd want to kick his fuckin ass.

I would also like to say in this case he wasn't dealing with crack heads or dangerous people but kids who just got out of school and jaywalked across the street. It's obvious jaywalking doesn't warrant that type of response and according to the person that said they were there the cop started twisting her arm and then slammed her against the car for yelling back. Fuck that.

I was also surrounded by a group of people once. I got a shitty blame-displacement tongue so I got my ass kicked

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

And I would like two women at one time, a classic car, friends from all over the world who love and adore me, my own country, and a pickle. Sadly, I only have the car and pickle right now...
Your fantasy is a delusion. Think about it... Cops = people + authority... Meaning that if you were a cop, you would do the same thing! Also, imagine one of the attackers pulling a knife. As quick as dead. A crowd gets out of control and one dead cop. But you don't care about the cop, his family or anything. In fact, I don't think you care about the "victims" either... I think you just hate.
I was surrounded by a crowd once and unaided by the local fat-police that refused to help me (I am not a cop btw.) It could have been one dead DeeDaw in a manner of minutes. Thank god for my blame-displacement tongue...
I was also followed by a crack head because I told her to leave my neighborhood after she was in my yard and scared my wife and children. She followed me so close, asked if I was scared in a threatening manner and I was thinking, "You damn right, I cannot stand getting cut." Instead I just glared and she slinked away.

That's exactly the mentality I'm talking about. Being arrested doesn't mean you're guilty of anything, it just means you're a suspect. These idiots will get their day in court and they're innocent at least until then. That's how the system works.

Now if you think the system should be changed, that's a discussion we can have. I'd be interested to hear a realistic and better system proposed. But, in the meantime, please stop building that straw man.

>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:

Yea guilty till proven innocent.

>> ^Raaagh:
Face punching is a legitimate physical recourse to pacify a 17 year old girl?
Fuck you.


>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:
sorry for all the fucks, this shit bugs me and it bugs me that the majority are ok with it.


Precisely, all of you defending the cop like he has the right to be a dick because he has a title "officer of the law making an arrest" don't care about the larger social context of: You shouldn't be a prick toward other humans?

Think about it. If it were a citizens arrest or rent-a-cop at a school.
Would it be okay for the average person to punch your 17 year old daughter [aka a child] in the face?

His actions aren't protecting or serving anyone.
It's a misdemeanor charge that should have been handled with a verbal warning like our sensible @swedishfriend mentioned.

We already know that power corrupts and bureaucracies make rules for the sake of rule making.
We already know that police precincts nation wide are pressured to meet quotas & falsify crime stats.
We already know that swat teams can & will bust into your house and kill both of your dogs for no reason.

If you support this officers actions you're only supporting a broken "justice" system where white collar criminals [upper class] get away with ruining the economy and normal common class citizens get hassled.

Some people who are defending this "kid" (rolls eyes) forget the simple fact that these people were breaking the law and they knew they were breaking the law and they knew they got caught breaking the law. If they don't like the law, if you don't like the law, that's not the cops fault and it doesn't give ANYONE the right to just start grabbing and pushing the cop.

Almost EVERY day when we drop off or pickup my son from school (High School) some dumb-ass "kid" will not only bolt out off the curb or from behind a parked car right into traffic but they will do it without even looking in the direction the cars are coming from.

If there wasn't a jay-walking law or if it wasn't enforced you could just imagine the shit storm when one of these "kids" gets killed by a car. Why isn't there anyone out there keeping them safe? Why isn't anyone keeping them from crossing the street in a dangerous area?

^Sorry no, still don't see it.^ I would expect that my 17 year-old daughter would comply with a cop, even if she was just jaywalking. Most of the time in these videos I think the cop is way in the wrong and I don't think he should have hit her. But even if you only jaywalked, you still broke the law, which means a police officer can arrest you. It doesn't mean that you have the right to struggle and resist arrest. Cops aren't supermen, they get scared just like the rest of us. I don't know if this cop was scared or if he's just a prick who likes to hit women. That doesn't change the fact that you just don't struggle when you're being put under arrest. The only time I would ever do that is if I was afraid for my life and thought it was either him or me.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
That's exactly the mentality I'm talking about. Being arrested doesn't mean you're guilty of anything, it just means you're a suspect. These idiots will get their day in court and they're innocent at least until then. That's how the system works.
Now if you think the system should be changed, that's a discussion we can have. I'd be interested to hear a realistic and better system proposed. But, in the meantime, please stop building that straw man.
>> ^ToKeyMonsTeR:
Yea guilty till proven innocent.



So because you personally can't think of sensible reforms to law-making and enforcement.. that makes it okay for anyone who's willing to complete police academy to misuse the law to arrest anyone for any reason and abuse/assault them as much as the feel the need to?

http://videosift.com/video/Dont-Talk-to-Cops @min 5:22

Being arrested means you're "suspected" of being guilty of violating a law.
Since the law is written so that any actions you take can be construed or later be found to be a violation of the law..

You are in effect. Guilty until the State can't or doesn't feel like prosecuting you.

Stop acting like police are there to protect your interest.
Police only exist to protect business and political interests of the power elite.
Arrest quotas & the "war on drugs" only exist as excuses to keep police in business.

Genji, it sounds to me like you just have a problem with all cops in general.

Um, NOT punching teenage girls in the face is a good start.

Edit - Also, I'd really like to *talk about this issue of law enforce vs citizens further.

>> ^Mcboinkens:

>> ^Raaagh:
Face punching is a legitimate physical recourse to pacify a 17 year old girl?
Fuck you.

What was he supposed to do? Ask them nicely? Like that was going to work. What is your suggestion for stopping an unruly crowd member from interrupting an arrest of someone resisting arrest?

Wow, this thread has sure brought out the crazy in a lot of people. Some of whom I thought were rational previously.

First of all, WTF is wrong with you "verbal warning" idiots!!! Jaywalking is a crime. It is a crime because when too many people don't follow the rules of traffic, PEOPLE DIE. Verbal warnings are for people who don't realize they're breaking the law. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, the area where the video was shot has a problem with frequent violations. So really, stuff your "verbal warnings".

But it's too late now. Too many "verbal warnings" were given, and when a police officer finally starts to really enforce the law FOR THE SAFETY OF THE PUBLIC, the stupid kids are expecting to get away with it again. What happens when you break that expectation? Physical confrontation! Congratulations, "verbal warners", you've just created an unsafe situation for anybody to try to enforce the law.

So these kids freak out and disobey an officer who is trying to do the right thing by giving them a citation (which might *gasp* encourage others to use the fucking crosswalk). One of the lawbreakers brazenly tries to walk away from the officer who has instructed her to wait for a citation. What should he do now, "verbal warners"? Let her walk away? Is THAT THE MESSAGE YOU WANT TO SEND?

I am seriously dumbfounded at the stupid responses in this thread. And I shouldn't be letting it make me upset, but it is that kind of retarded viewpoint that makes it harder for cops to do their jobs, which makes the good cops quit their jobs and makes intelligent and honorable people less likely to become cops, which creates more bad cops who abuse their authority.

WRITING A CITATION IS NOT AN ABUSE OF AUTHORITY! IT IS THEIR JOB!

Dammit, I hate writing in caps, but you morons need to pull your heads out of your asses.

PS. If you get between an officer and a person he is trying to detain, you get the smackdown. Fuck all y'all who say different. Of course this situation could have been handled better if this guy had better training, but if it wasn't for the atmosphere of disrespect toward officers that some in this thread are exacerbating, this situation would not have ever happened.

If he'd shoved her to the ground i'd agree that was "reasonable", but to pick your shot and deliver a punch to the face on someone who's ineptly fumbling at you?

It wasn't necessary, a vicious shove would have put her onto the floor and scabbed her elbow and made her cry.

Can all the "my country right or wrong HUAH FUCK RAGHEADS" crowd please piss off back to your NRA meeting, do you guys have a mass texting system whenever a new "cop being arsehole" video surfaces?

From just watching the video, I wouldn't have guessed the women were only 17. Not that their age has any relevance to the situation.

The FACTS are: the cop was trying to arrest girl #1. What he was trying to arrest her for is irrelevant. IRRELEVANT. When a cop is trying to arrest you and you resist, there will be a struggle. When the cop is struggling to arrest girl #1, girl #2 steps in and shoves him. The cop is surrounded by a mob. He is trying to deal with 2 belligerent suspects by himself. Punching girl #2 in the face, while surprising, took her out of the situation pretty effectively. He didn't taze her, he didn't mace her and he didn't shoot her.

The only ones escalating anything are the 2 women by resisting arrest and shoving a police officer. Anyone that ISN'T that cop in that situation should try to say what he should or shouldn't have done. Resisting arrest is resisting arrest. Period.

>> ^MaxWilder:

1. Wow, this thread has sure brought out the crazy in a lot of people.

2. Of course this situation could have been handled better if this guy had better training,

3. but if it wasn't for the atmosphere of disrespect toward officers that some in this thread are exacerbating, this situation would not have ever happened.


1. I agree.

2. So why not just get all officers better training. This seems to happen quite a bit.

3. You sincerely think it's our outrage at a situation which under any other context would be consider 'uncalled for' is the reason cops are disrespected? Instead of say - the entire history of police corruption and misconduct. Seriously?!

Being a cop doesn't give you the right to be violent whenever you feel like it. There's no excuse.

If you can't handle a jaywalking teenager without excessive forceful you shouldn't be a cop.

If you don't hold cops accountable when they overstep their duties, you give them a superiority complex which inevitably leads to abuse.
Zimbardo's Prison experiment proves that.

Laws don't mean shit if there's a double standard.
Max, you can't comprehend how that's more important then arresting some jaywalking idiot?!

I clicked on this expecting some kind of outrageous action by the police officer. I am not apologist for the police; I think the have militarized and extended their "us vrs them" philosophy to the point where they are no longer serving the public in some cases; they are becoming thugs. Not all police, and not all police forces, but it is definitely going in the wrong direction. And time after time I see videos where the police report of the incident was a flat out lie.

Putting aside the matter of what the charge was for the moment, I really fail to see how this video is an outrage. In fact, he seems to show a lot of restraint to me. One guy with a crowd around him, a fair bit of the crowd hostile. He is just trying to arrest one person, who is resisting. Sure he could have slammed her down on the hood, hurt her and cuffed her, but he choose not to; it likely would have riled the crowd, plus be pretty nasty. Once he is in the position where another person tries to interfere, he really only has two choices: Leave or escalate. Leaving is not a good option, overall law and order wise; it will create complications. His escalation is just a single punch that will do no lasting harm and solves the two on one problem instantly without further damage or harm. He does not freak out and seems to be trying to not escalate. I'll bet that if they had just talked to him, took their ticket and moved on there would not have been a problem.

All in all, the resolution seemed about as good as it was likely to be.

I saw this video first on a local paper's site. Look at the article for the account and one of the comments is from a by-stander which is where I got the account of what happened just before the video which I paraphrased.
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/06/seattle_police_officer_caught.php

Too many comments for me to find that one comment right now but it's one of the longer ones somewhere in the middle (there was already 900+ comments when I read that particular one yesterday).


>> ^volumptuous:

>> ^swedishfriend:
context from a guy who was there:
young man gets stopped for jaywalking. Cop wants to arrest him and the girls get angry and start yelling. C

Sounds like this person wasn't actually there. The girls were the ones who were jaywalking, which is why they were also cited for it.
btw: what's your source for "a guy"?

17 years old = minor

In case you didn't know>> ^Grimm:
Some people who are defending this "kid" (rolls eyes) forget the simple fact that these people were breaking the law and they knew they were breaking the law and they knew they got caught breaking the law. If they don't like the law, if you don't like the law, that's not the cops fault and it doesn't give ANYONE the right to just start grabbing and pushing the cop.
Almost EVERY day when we drop off or pickup my son from school (High School) some dumb-ass "kid" will not only bolt out off the curb or from behind a parked car right into traffic but they will do it without even looking in the direction the cars are coming from.
If there wasn't a jay-walking law or if it wasn't enforced you could just imagine the shit storm when one of these "kids" gets killed by a car. Why isn't there anyone out there keeping them safe? Why isn't anyone keeping them from crossing the street in a dangerous area?

1) I think the girls were stupid and should be taught how to deal with officers who have no respect for your age or gender, especially if you live on the wrong side of the tracks

2) I just can't imagine this happening to some of the skinny blonds I knew in high school, some of whom were just as crazy. I can't see them being suckerpunched. can you?

3) Despite some of you wanting to make an exception for these girls because they don't fit the phenotype you prefer, they are kids and minors, with the same mentality as such. It absolutely does matter in this situation.

4) The crowd was not hysterical, not a mob, not a riot. Look at their behavior, not their skin color. They were very restrained, not physically interfering at all. Just paying attention and recording to make sure this didn't turn into another 'accidental' cop murder. Given the history of cops, I can't blame those folks for being wary.

5) The officer obviously needs more training. To let a jaywalking infraction escalate into punching a 17 year old girl is unacceptable.

6) You law and order types would not be quiet and respectful if you thought some officer arresting you was in the wrong. You feel the way you do because you seldom encounter aggressive cops. Well, some people deal with that type everyday.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/96353934.html

According to Seattle police, the incident began when an officer spotted a man jaywalking in the 3100 block of Martin Luther King, Jr. Way S. at approximately 3:10 p.m. The man was some 15 feet away from a pedestrian overpass, police said.

The officer was talking to the man when he saw four young women jaywalk across the same street at the same spot. The officer asked the women to step over to his patrol car, but the women were being "verbally antagonistic toward the officer," according to officials.

One of the women, later identified as a 19 year old, began to walk away from the scene despite the officer's instructions, prompting the officer to walk over to her and escort her back to his patrol car.

The girl then "began to tense up her arm, and pull away from the officer while yelling at him," investigators said. The officer told the girl to place her hands on his patrol car, but she refused. When the officer tried to grab hold of her, "she pulled away and twisted, breaking free of the officer's grip several times," the blotter report said.

When the officer tried to handcuff the girl, another girl, this one 17 years old, intervened and placed her hands on the officer's arm, "causing the officer to believe she was attempting to physically affect the first subject's escape," police said.

The officer pushed back the second girl, but the girl came back at him. The officer then punched her, police said.

The officer then handcuffed the 19-year-old woman. Other officers arrived and helped handcuff the second girl.

Both teens were cited for jaywalking. The older suspect was booked into the King County Jail for investigation of obstructing an officer. The 17-year-old girl was booked into the Youth Service Center for investigation of assault of an officer.

Nobody was injured during the incident, police said.

1- Bullshit point. Citing/ticketing a person for breaking the law happens on every "side of the track", or whatever you're calling it. In fact, this "side of the track" is the officers beat. This is where he is every day. These are the people he is served to protect.

2- If you read this thread, you'd see my earlier account of my friend being ticketed for this same thing. My friend is also white, blonde, blue-eyed and makes a lot of money. But, cops didn't care, they saw a guy jaywalking and pulled him over. He wasn't suckerpunched because I didn't try to intervene and then push the officer like the girl in this video!

3- One girl was 19. Not a minor. The other (who pushed him) is 17. You're treating them like they're 8 or 9 years old.

4- Someone in the crowd yelled out "there's going to be a riot, right here".

5- The officer needs more training in subduing a perp. Otherwise, he ended the situation appropriately.

6- I've been arrested three times in my life. I didn't fight back during any one of them, nor did I call the officers names, or try to run away.

I lived for years in downtown Detroit, and now I live in one of the most violent, gang ridden parts of Los Angeles. Please do NOT tell me anything about color prejudice or police conduct. It seems the one here with no experience with law enforcement, or gang voilence, are the ones so quick to point the finger at us.

I'm one of the first to point out police misconduct, and basically have very little respect for authority. But that disrespect doesn't make me blind and cry wolf every time a cop arrests someone.


btw: Longde - your post above shows exactly what happened. People were breaking the law, the cop tried to stop them, they resisted, one pushed the cop, the cop ended the situation. The end.



>> ^longde:

1) I think the girls were stupid and should be taught how to deal with officers who have no respect for your age or gender, especially if you live on the wrong side of the tracks
2) I just can't imagine this happening to some of the skinny blonds I knew in high school, some of whom were just as crazy. I can't see them being suckerpunched. can you?
3) Despite some of you wanting to make an exception for these girls because they don't fit the phenotype you prefer, they are kids and minors, with the same mentality as such. It absolutely does matter in this situation.
4) The crowd was not hysterical, not a mob, not a riot. Look at their behavior, not their skin color. They were very restrained, not physically interfering at all. Just paying attention and recording to make sure this didn't turn into another 'accidental' cop murder. Given the history of cops, I can't blame those folks for being wary.
5) The officer obviously needs more training. To let a jaywalking infraction escalate into punching a 17 year old girl is unacceptable.
6) You law and order types would not be quiet and respectful if you thought some officer arresting you was in the wrong. You feel the way you do because you seldom encounter aggressive cops. Well, some people deal with that type everyday.

1- Of course not. It is well known and documented that police stop and harass people depending of factors such as color, where they live, class, etc. The drug war is a prime example of a set of laws that everyone breaks, but are selectively enforced. There are many others, if you want to get into it.

Ah, yes, LA, that epicenter of police justice. Home of dirty cops who make up evidence to convict folks. Didn't they recently have to overturn hundreds of convictions due to dirty cops' behavior?

>> ^volumptuous:
1- Bullshit point. Citing/ticketing a person for breaking the law happens on every "side of the track", or whatever you're calling it. In fact, this "side of the track" is the officers beat. This is where he is every day. These are the people he is served to protect.
2- If you read this thread, you'd see my earlier account of my friend being ticketed for this same thing. My friend is also white, blonde, blue-eyed and makes a lot of money. But, cops didn't care, they saw a guy jaywalking and pulled him over. He wasn't suckerpunched because I didn't try to intervene and then push the officer like the girl in this video!
3- One girl was 19. Not a minor. The other (who pushed him) is 17. You're treating them like they're 8 or 9 years old.
4- Someone in the crowd yelled out "there's going to be a riot, right here".
5- The officer needs more training in subduing a perp. Otherwise, he ended the situation appropriately.
6- I've been arrested three times in my life. I didn't fight back during any one of them, nor did I call the officers names, or try to run away.
I lived for years in downtown Detroit, and now I live in one of the most violent, gang ridden parts of Los Angeles. Please do NOT tell me anything about color prejudice or police conduct. It seems the one here with no experience with law enforcement, or gang voilence, are the ones so quick to point the finger at us.
I'm one of the first to point out police misconduct, and basically have very little respect for authority. But that disrespect doesn't make me blind and cry wolf every time a cop arrests someone.
btw: Longde - your post above shows exactly what happened. People were breaking the law, the cop tried to stop them, they resisted, one pushed the cop, the cop ended the situation. The end.
>> ^longde:
1) I think the girls were stupid and should be taught how to deal with officers who have no respect for your age or gender, especially if you live on the wrong side of the tracks
2) I just can't imagine this happening to some of the skinny blonds I knew in high school, some of whom were just as crazy. I can't see them being suckerpunched. can you?
3) Despite some of you wanting to make an exception for these girls because they don't fit the phenotype you prefer, they are kids and minors, with the same mentality as such. It absolutely does matter in this situation.
4) The crowd was not hysterical, not a mob, not a riot. Look at their behavior, not their skin color. They were very restrained, not physically interfering at all. Just paying attention and recording to make sure this didn't turn into another 'accidental' cop murder. Given the history of cops, I can't blame those folks for being wary.
5) The officer obviously needs more training. To let a jaywalking infraction escalate into punching a 17 year old girl is unacceptable.
6) You law and order types would not be quiet and respectful if you thought some officer arresting you was in the wrong. You feel the way you do because you seldom encounter aggressive cops. Well, some people deal with that type everyday.

I don't get why people are saying the crowd was unruly. They were just observing and only became loud after the punch, but even then seemed relatively calm. The girls were out of control, but a punch the face seems unnecessary because honestly the girls pushing up on him like they were wasn't a real threat to him. An obstruction? Possibly, but then wait for backup.

Also I don't understand why people are using the "it's the law" defense for the officer's actions. I get it's the law, but maybe that's part of the problem here? Sometimes laws are just dumb. If jaywalking is such a danger to society, I'd like to present NYC as an example how it's not. For those of you who use the "but it's the law" argument, I'd like to remind you of a particular logical fallacy: Appeal to law.

For those who say "don't resist arrest under any circumstances because it doesn't mean you're guilty", I tend to want to agree with you, but if you've ever spent a day on jury duty you'll know a large portion of the public believe arrests equate to guilt. This was just an unfortunate situation any way you slice it.

No shit?

3 years old = minor

But I think logical thinking people can agree that a 17 year old should be held more accountable for their own actions then a 3 year old.

>> ^longde:

17 years old = minor
In case you didn't know

>> ^volumptuous:
I lived for years in downtown Detroit, and now I live in one of the most violent, gang ridden parts of Los Angeles. Please do NOT tell me anything about color prejudice or police conduct. It seems the one here with no experience with law enforcement, or gang voilence, are the ones so quick to point the finger at us.


Yeah, @longde, your opinion doesn't matter because Captain Experience over here has lived in LA! Volumptuous is from the streets, yo! Hahahaha. He's straight out of Compton! LOLZ!

Oh, fucking put a sock in it BF.

Jaywalking in the US contributes to almost 5,000 deaths per year. And well over 7,000 serious injuries. Cops have to directly deal with this shit. Maybe you personally don't like the law (as well as every other law ever, unless Ron Paul says it's ok) but most people don't want to run over some kid who runs across the street unexpectedly.

A friend of mine killed three girls who ran across the street, drunk, at night, out of nowhere. Do you think he just loves living with this imagery for the rest of his life? Fucking hell man, that is just so wacked out. And to think this has anything to do with being black, or poor, or white cops abusing their power is so out of the ballpark you're playing the wrong game.

That is why we have these fucking laws.

And BF: Yes, I live in an incredibly gang-ridden neighborhood, with the Aves, Latin Kings and Dogtown killing eachother every weekend. Last weekend there were four homicides within six blocks of my house. When I lived in Detroit in the late 80's, I was in the extreme thick of it, and it was the fucking murder capital of the country. Maybe that doesn't sound like much to you, but why don't you fucking move over here for a week and see how your pasty-white valley ass deals with it.

Please, have some fucking perspective for once.

Damn, volumpy is straight up pimp. Rolling with the gang bangers and shit. Ducking drive-bys while he Sifts his videos. Yo, 50 Cent, how is the G-Unit these days? LOLZ.

He's so hardcore he be quoting some jaywalking death statistics, yo. Now that is street! Nevermind that these precious anti-jaywalking laws haven't prevented any jaywalking deaths, that would just be playa-hatin' on the laws, dog.

Bwahaha.

>> ^blankfist:

For those of you who use the "but it's the law" argument, I'd like to remind you of a particular logical fallacy: Appeal to law.

I haven't seen anyone make the appeal to law fallacy. They would need to have said something that boiled down to "the officer was morally right to punch the girl, because the law permits it" for that fallacy to apply.

If you want to turn the argument into a discussion of whether it is moral for police officers to use force to complete an arrest of people who physically resist, knock yourself out, but simply talking about whether or not the officer's actions were within the law or not doesn't mean you are necessarily using fallacious reasoning.

BTW, that means it was a straw man fallacy you committed there. Way to go!

Go away, NR, I'm picking on volumptuous. There's only room in here for one troll!

I don't know why your arguing about the jaywalking law. It's needed in certain places but everyone on earth knows you don't need to use force when applying that law.

If someone disrespects the cop while hes writing you a ticket or if that person is yelling at the cop that cop doesn't need to resort to force or start putting his hands on the person. It's bullshit that that's allowed and it's bullshit that if you pull away from that unnecessary force they are allowed to use even more force on you. And you get another added charge for resisting unnecessary force. ><

I get that the original girl walked away, so maybe he grabbed her and brought her back to the car. But clearly at the start of this video she isnt moving anyways and asking the officer to get the fuck off her, I think she says neck or hand, I dunno but you clearly see him grab her even more and push her against the car needlessly, she wasnt running or even trying to escape just being disrespectful. Which to cops = arrest/tase/manhandle. Once that happens she freaks out even more and tries to get his hands off of her in what seems to be a panic. The 17 year old sees this guy being overly aggressive with her friend and tries to break it up, but because cops cant handle disrespect and consider a touch to be fucking assault, she gets decked. fuck that.

That 17 year old was the only person with a backbone. The only person willing to defend a friend from needless aggression. For that she goes to jail.

This badge and uniform says I get to do what I want right now.

Of course there is a serious problem with police misconduct. It's obvious from all the stories that have surfaced in the past couple decades. But it is utterly retarded to treat every cop who throws a punch the same way you would treat a cop who shoots unarmed suspects. Each situation must be analyzed separately.

If he had punched a girl who was cooperating, then of course I would be on your side, but she was trying to help a woman who was resisting arrest. Plain and simple.

If she was a ten year old, then of course I would be on your side, but she was a full grown woman even though she was technically under 18.

If this was any other situation and a man punched a woman, of course I would be on your side, but the police can NOT treat genders differently, or crazy girls like this will get away with whatever they want to do. The simple fact is that women can be a danger to police just like men, so they must be treated the same.

I just don't understand how you can possibly be on the side of the spoiled belligerent lawbreakers.

Now about the supposed "double standard" issue. I don't do that. I am a firm believer that the police should be the model of a law abiding citizen, and will not tolerate police who break laws. But that is simply not what happened here. He had every right to arrest the first girl, and he had every right to punch anybody who tried to prevent him from arresting the first girl.

In regards to the crowd, I really don't care if the crowd was not violent at that moment. The fact that the cop was surrounded by a crowd who was obviously on the side of the lawbreaker makes it a very dangerous environment. At any second, one of those people could have stepped in to assault the officer, and in fact that is exactly what happened. Now what if he was wrestling with two suspects (instead of beating one down quickly) and a third person steps in? That would be the end of him, and he knows it. He was having a difficult enough time with the first stupid girl, when the second girl assaulted him, he had to take her out of the equation fast.

Look, I am not a blind police supporter. In most of these videos, I am one of the people calling for heads to roll. I am sick of police brutality, but this is not one of those videos. This was a solitary, undertrained cop trying to do his job in the middle of a situation he is having a hard time controlling. It would be wonderful if we could "just get all officers better training". I would be fully in support of that. It doesn't change the fact that the level of force this officer used was appropriate. In fact, he was not using enough force on the girl he was originally trying to arrest, which directly led to the higher level of force he had to use on the second.

And yes, those of you who are outraged at this officer are making the situation worse. Get mad at the cops who shoot people first and ask questions later. Get mad at the cops who assault peaceful protesters. There are tons of videos out there where cops are abusing their authority that you should be outraged about. But when you get outraged at a cop who is trying to do what he is supposed to be doing, you are creating an atmosphere of disrespect that will lead to escalating violence. The video is, in fact, a perfect example. If they respected the officer who was doing his job properly, there would have been no violence at all.

There are times, in extreme circumstances, when resisting an unlawful arrest might be the right thing to do, but this is not one of them. In the vast, vast majority of cases you should simply take the citation and fight it in court. Resisting arrest is a crime, and on top of that it will make you look more guilty for whatever the cop is charging you. If you are caught in a situation where you did not break any laws, you best bet for getting out of trouble is to fully comply with the police.

Sigh. This is such a stupid argument. I can't believe there are so many people on the side of the morons who are trying to weasel out of a jaywalking ticket.

Tokeymonster, you obviously don't understand what happens when you try to walk away from an officer who is instructing you to stay. You get forced to stay. They don't let you go after that. You have proven that you are a "flight risk", and cannot be trusted to stay put, so they will hold you. That is the way it works, and the way it should work. That is why you don't walk away from an officer. That is why you comply with instructions.

In the video, "she isn't moving away" because the officer is holding her! She has already tried to get away once, and if he let her go she would probably try again. That's what she gets, and what she deserves.

And I can't believe there are so many people who ignore the first seconds of the video where the cop is grabbing her and pushes her against the car for no damn reason.

Edit: dang, my slow reply, you added another in the mean time. No I don't think thats what she deserves. She deserved to be talked to by a person that is supposed to have more sense, be reasonable, and show even more respect to the citizens they are SERVING.

Edit2: You're probably right anyways, thats what cops are supposed to do whatever. I dislike cops. I don't like cops at all. I don't like cops being able to tell me what to do. I don't like that I have to kiss their ass when they talk to me. I don't like anything about them. So I'm pretty biased when it comes to them, and when I see this video of one of these douches hitting a girl, hitting a kid, I boils my blood. But whatever, it don't matter cause most people don't mind kissing other people's asses who have imaginary authority.

No damn reason? She tried to get away! Does that mean nothing to you?

You think complying with instructions from an officer of the law is the same as kissing their ass? You have a fucked up world view.

If an officer tells you to stop, you stop.
If an officer asks you a question, you reply with as much information you feel appropriate.
If an officer tells you to give identification, you politely ask what you are being charged with.
If an officer tells you what you are being charged with, you give identification.

If at any point you try to walk away, you are an idiot. If at any point you are rude or belligerent, you are an idiot.

This is not kissing ass. This is being respectful of the role in society that the officer plays. All you have to do is be polite. If that is difficult for you, that is your problem, not the officer's.

An officer is not under any kind of obligation, legally or morally, to show you more respect than you show him. Like I said before, if you comply with an officer's instructions and then you get beat, that is an entirely different story and I would be fully supportive of getting that officer fired and/or imprisoned. But that is not. what. happened. here. This is a video of two women who were disrespectful, unruly, tried to flee the scene, and laid hands on an officer while he was trying to do his job.

So what happens when the officer declines to tell you what you are being charged with? Do you refuse to give identification?

Also, you should always take advantage of your right to be silent.

>> ^MaxWilder:
No damn reason? She tried to get away! Does that mean nothing to you?
You think complying with instructions from an officer of the law is the same as kissing their ass? You have a fucked up world view.
If an officer tells you to stop, you stop.
If an officer asks you a question, you reply with as much information you feel appropriate.
If an officer tells you to give identification, you politely ask what you are being charged with.
If an officer tells you what you are being charged with, you give identification.
If at any point you try to walk away, you are an idiot. If at any point you are rude or belligerent, you are an idiot.
This is not kissing ass. This is being respectful of the role in society that the officer plays. All you have to do is be polite. If that is difficult for you, that is your problem, not the officer's.
An officer is not under any kind of obligation, legally or morally, to show you more respect than you show him. Like I said before, if you comply with an officer's instructions and then you get beat, that is an entirely different story and I would be fully supportive of getting that officer fired and/or imprisoned. But that is not. what. happened. here. This is a video of two women who were disrespectful, unruly, tried to flee the scene, and laid hands on an officer while he was trying to do his job.

Actually after a supreme court ruling as of last month I believe. To invoke your right to remain silent you must invoke it by stating you are invoking in no uncertain terms, and I am not sure what happens if you decide to speak after this...if it cancels the invocation or not. There is also now a time limit on getting a lawyer, although Im a little unclear on how they proceed if you don't meet the time limit.


Some states have laws where you must provide identification/info when asked charged or not (name, address, etc), so the answer to the question is going to vary on a state to state basis. But if a cop isn't telling you what you're charged with, then ask if you're free to go. If they say no, then I believe they have to have a charge to hold you on. If they can't come up with one, then know your rights related to your state and invoke them appropriately and respectfully. Hell inconvenience the cop a bit and ask for him to request a ranking officer come out to clear it up, he isn't going to punch you in the face over it.

Best post so far.

>> ^MaxWilder:

No damn reason? She tried to get away! Does that mean nothing to you?
You think complying with instructions from an officer of the law is the same as kissing their ass? You have a fucked up world view.
If an officer tells you to stop, you stop.
If an officer asks you a question, you reply with as much information you feel appropriate.
If an officer tells you to give identification, you politely ask what you are being charged with.
If an officer tells you what you are being charged with, you give identification.
If at any point you try to walk away, you are an idiot. If at any point you are rude or belligerent, you are an idiot.
This is not kissing ass. This is being respectful of the role in society that the officer plays. All you have to do is be polite. If that is difficult for you, that is your problem, not the officer's.
An officer is not under any kind of obligation, legally or morally, to show you more respect than you show him. Like I said before, if you comply with an officer's instructions and then you get beat, that is an entirely different story and I would be fully supportive of getting that officer fired and/or imprisoned. But that is not. what. happened. here. This is a video of two women who were disrespectful, unruly, tried to flee the scene, and laid hands on an officer while he was trying to do his job.

Unless you are in the drivers seat of a motor vehicle, asking for ID without charging you for something is just an intimidation technique, and really isn't related to this discussion. If you have been pulled over, or if you have been caught doing something illegal, show ID. Anything else is a topic for another discussion.

And you are absolutely right about keeping silent *IF* you are accused of doing something bad enough to be taken to jail, say "I want a lawyer" until you get one, and nothing else.

But if we are talking about petty offenses, like jaywalking or something else that would just get you a citation, be polite, show ID, obey instructions. You are far more likely to get a warning that way, but even if you do get a citation at least you won't get taken to jail.

This is a great video series that talks about the kind of common sense I'm referring to: http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights


>> ^longde:

So what happens when the officer declines to tell you what you are being charged with? Do you refuse to give identification?
Also, you should always take advantage of your right to be silent.

No, that's not at all what I'm saying. First off, when I said I'd like to hear a realistic and better system proposed, I wasn't being snarky; I really would be interested in hearing ideas of that sort. Your implication that I think the system is perfect and cops should be free to do as they see fit is way out of line.

What I am saying is don't dig your hole deeper by assaulting the officer who is trying to arrest you (or someone else). You're not accomplishing anything. If you were innocent of the crime you were being arrested for, you've damaged your character and committed a crime that you're practically guaranteed to be convicted of. If you were guilty of the first crime, now you're guilty of two. These girls just went from paying a piddly fine to (probably) extended probation and maybe some jail time.

Being suspected of something doesn't make a bit of difference. I could say I suspect you're a meth-head based on your inability to communicate in complete sentences. Does it mean anything without substantiating evidence? No. Have your rights been violated? No.

The police are there to protect our collective interests. Perhaps certain individuals aren't but, collectively, that is the purpose for their existence. If you think the law should be changed then work to change it. Violent retaliation against the police only weakens your position, whether you're right or wrong.

Personally, I'd love to see all drugs legalized and I'd also love to see some reform in and around traffic tickets/court. These don't involve restructuring the system, however. Claiming that you are "guilty until proven innocent" in a system intended to be the exact opposite implies something along the lines of starting with a clean slate, IMO.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

So because you personally can't think of sensible reforms to law-making and enforcement.. that makes it okay for anyone who's willing to complete police academy to misuse the law to arrest anyone for any reason and abuse/assault them as much as the feel the need to?
http://videosift.com/video/Dont-Talk-to-Cops @min 5:22
Being arrested means you're "suspected" of being guilty of violating a law.
Since the law is written so that any actions you take can be construed or later be found to be a violation of the law..
You are in effect. Guilty until the State can't or doesn't feel like prosecuting you.
Stop acting like police are there to protect your interest.
Police only exist to protect business and political interests of the power elite.
Arrest quotas & the "war on drugs" only exist as excuses to keep police in business.

There seems to be two main forms of analysis going on here. One is seeing a cop justified in a use of force because she is 'resisting arrest' and there is an 'angry mob' around him. The other claims this was unjustified and that the cop is a pig.

Lets think about what constitutes resisiting arrest. Why is that automatically a bad thing? For what reason should human beings willfully accept an arrest when they don't find it justifiable? Why should we willingly accept a white male's handcuff and perspective of 'the law'? This officer is operating on an understanding of how society should operate and what his place in is when he decides to arrest this woman. This understanding is inherently hierarchical and oppressive. Think about the power relationship here, or between cops and society in general. There is little to no repercussion for these fuckers. Only recently with the advent of video technology can we show what these scumbags do all the time. Human beings have a right to resist the State. No reason at all why we should have to bend over for this class traitor.

That 'angry mob' idea. I wonder if it was a group of white people asking the officer to stop, what you categorize them as an angry mob? These people, if angry, have a right to be angry: a cop is repressing two woman, one of which was hit in the face. There is no reason why humans can't resist when they feel it necessary to do so. Your claim of an 'angry mob' reveals alot of racism. Guarantee that if it were white folks, you would call them 'patriots' or 'concerned citizens'.

I'm in favor of the second analysis. This is a pig, those are human beings resisting the state. Revolt is what makes us human

Hard to say what entirely happened here, seeing as how you only get the video mid yelling. For all we know the cop could've just wanted to talk to her about jay walking across the street. If she had played her cards right and been reasonable, it would of been just a verbal warning. However, on the flip side, he crossed the line by punching her. All in all, imo it just seems like a group of jackasses trying to outtrump each other.

No grown man gets to punch a 17 year old girl in the face. fucking period. what the hell is wrong with you people?

You people should go make your own anarchic state with no laws or police. That will work out great.

Not First Legal Run-In For Video Teens

Cop assault, robbery, auto theft on rap sheets of viral "victims"

JUNE 17--One of the teenage girls seen tussling with a Seattle cop on a recent viral video was arrested last year for assaulting a sheriff's deputy, records show. Marilyn Levias, 19, was busted last February after cops were called to a residential treatment center where the young woman had been abusive to staff (Levias was scheduled to be transported to a foster home). According to the below probable cause affidavit sworn by King County Sheriff's Office Detective Eleanor Broggi, Levias became "loud an uncooperative" and told two deputies to "Fuck Off." At one point, she allegedly pushed Deputy Amy Zarelli, causing her to fall, with Levias landing atop her. After Levias was handcuffed, she kicked Zarelli in the stomach and called her a "bitch." The charge against Levias, a first-time offender, was dismissed on "deferred disposition" after she completed the terms of community supervision. The other young woman seen in the recent video, Angel Rosenthal, 17, has been arrested twice in the past two years. She was busted in early-2008 for auto theft, as detailed in a probable cause affidavit sworn by a Kent Police Department officer. In an interview with police, Rosenthal admitted using a screw driver to "break the ignition and start" a Dodge Caravan. The juvenile case against Rosenthal was dismissed after Rosenthal received a "deferred disposition." She was arrested again last August for allegedly punching and robbing a 14-year-old boy, according to a Seattle Police Department probable cause affidavit. The robbery case was dismissed earlier this year. Levias and Rosenthal were arrested Monday afternoon after tangling with Officer Ian Walsh, who tried to cite Levias for jaywalking outside a Seattle high school. As seen in the video shot by an onlooker, Rosenthal was punched in the face by Walsh after she pushed the cop and tried to intervene in his arrest of Levias.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0617102punch1.html

>> ^tsquire1:
I'm in favor of the second analysis. This is a pig, those are human beings resisting the state. Revolt is what makes us human


Have fun with ToKeyMonsTeR in Anarchy Land.

Hey, fuck you and your offhand accusations of racism! You can tell the mob is hostile because of what they are shouting at the cop. It has nothing to do with race! If they were shouting "Calm down you stupid bitch!" or "Put the cuffs on her!" then I would not categorize them as hostile. But they were shouting to let her go, obviously on her side.

And peggedbea, while I would agree in any other circumstance, this is a police officer in the process of an arrest. He had to put one of them down hard and fast. Cops can't treat women differently than men, or women like this would get away with any shit they wanted to pull. It's bad enough when a girl cries and gets her way from her parents. That makes her spoiled. If she is able to pull the same thing with a cop, she'll turn into a hardened criminal. Which is what these two girls are already well on their way to becoming. I would have loved to see him deal with it in a different way, but mace or a tazer probably would have been worse. What would you suggest, harsh language?

>> ^tsquire1:

That 'angry mob' idea. I wonder if it was a group of white people asking the officer to stop, what you categorize them as an angry mob? These people, if angry, have a right to be angry: a cop is repressing two woman, one of which was hit in the face. There is no reason why humans can't resist when they feel it necessary to do so. Your claim of an 'angry mob' reveals alot of racism. Guarantee that if it were white folks, you would call them 'patriots' or 'concerned citizens'.

If people say "You don't hit women, because they're women" then guess what, those people are sexist.

It is true...I mean if you think about it when people say "you should never punch a female in the face" they are saying that there are times it's "OK" to punch a male in the face. I remember Damon Wayons (I think) had a bit about how men understand that their is a line you do not cross with another man and if you do cross that line you know that physical violence is possible and to expect it. Women on the other hand, because of the double standard we have of it being "OK" to punch males in certain situations and "NEVER" ok to punch a female lack this filter and cross the line as often as they please. Notice how the male in the video is trying to stop the females from crossing the line.>> ^gwiz665:

If people say "You don't hit women, because they're women" then guess what, those people are sexist.

You guys are fucking tools.

That's an excellent point, ToKeyMonsTeR. I'd never considered that. I'll have to change my position now.

>> ^Ryjkyj:

Genji, it sounds to me like you just have a problem with all cops in general.


-sounds like his problem may be with how police have evolved in the U.S.

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