"We were only following orders."

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, July 31st, 2012 11:17am PDT - promote requested by Boise_Lib.

*politics
*equality

Adding video to channels (Equality, Politics) - requested by Boise_Lib.

This isn't looking good at all.

Ah..., "Land of the Free"

You have the right - As long as you're not dumb enough to actually express it!

KILL PIGS

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Why do I always have to be the adult here?

In a large city like Anaheim you undoubtedly need a permit to march, which these people probably did not have, so therefore the demonstration is unlawful, and highly irritating to the people who work for a living and have to drive back and forth to work, the store, the childcare, the doctor, etc.

And the cops have to deal with people who are anarchists or just drones, and it's hard to tell them apart, especially when they hide behind anonymous avatars and say things like "KILL PIGS".

>> ^lantern53:

Why do I always have to be the adult here?
In a large city like Anaheim you undoubtedly need a permit to march, which these people probably did not have, so therefore the demonstration is unlawful, and highly irritating to the people who work for a living and have to drive back and forth to work, the store, the childcare, the doctor, etc.
And the cops have to deal with people who are anarchists or just drones, and it's hard to tell them apart, especially when they hide behind anonymous avatars and say things like "KILL PIGS".


The revolution will not have a permit.

There is nothing more offensive or frightening to me than the idea that peaceful protesters should be required to get a permit. If a government is corrupt or unpopular enough to spawn widespread civil unrest and disobedience, why would that same government aid protesters in its own removal? It wouldn't. What it would do in a nominally 'free' democracy or republic is clamp down slowly yet inexorably on basic rights of the citizens. In America, our government has a big roadblock to that goal, however the Justice Dept. is proving to be nimble minded enough to figure out some very clever ways to conquer that problem.

So far, imho, their most creative solution to: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" is to assert that although the government might not have the right to "prohibit the freedom of speech" per se, they do have the right to tell the people when and where they can do it.

Almost always the acceptable time and place to protest is in a "Protest Zone" that the government sets up out of sight and sound of the media and reason for the protest in the first place, thus neutering the protest in toto.

"Protest Zones" are a disgrace to our constitution.

And some want to ban guns. Things will get worse and you will wish you had the right to arm yourself. -- But then it will be too late.

*controversy

Adding video to channels (Controversy) - requested by MrFisk.

>> ^lantern53:

Why do I always have to be the adult here?
I take it by "adult" you mean "bury my head in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong".

I'm not sure whether I should upvote for awareness or downvote the conduct of the officers...

I keep arguing that all people who are in marches should have their placards on, at least, 7 foot poles with a sharp point. So they bring in the horses or do cavalry charges? Say hello to my pike wall and enjoy sticking around.

>> ^petpeeved:

The revolution will not have a permit.


There will never be a revolution because the only people who seem to be upset about anything are hippies and hippies are non-violent.

Occupy Wall Street was the biggest let down because when asked if they planned on sponsoring any political parties they said "we don't recognize the system so we don't sponsor anyone" or some shit like that.

Unless this "revolution" is going to burn our current system to the ground, or actually get involved in politics nothing will happen.

Feel free to shout and bang your drums if it makes you feel better. But that's not a revolution it's just a mosquito buzzing in the ear of our capitalist government.

>> ^Darkhand:

>> ^petpeeved:
The revolution will not have a permit.

There will never be a revolution because the only people who seem to be upset about anything are hippies and hippies are non-violent.
Occupy Wall Street was the biggest let down because when asked if they planned on sponsoring any political parties they said "we don't recognize the system so we don't sponsor anyone" or some shit like that.
Unless this "revolution" is going to burn our current system to the ground, or actually get involved in politics nothing will happen.
Feel free to shout and bang your drums if it makes you feel better. But that's not a revolution it's just a mosquito buzzing in the ear of our capitalist government.


You seem to think that only violence can change the system at this point? I honestly don't know if there is any hope of reforming the government via policy and procedure but I doubt violence would change anything for the better either.

I may be a simpleton but there really does seem to be a silver bullet to the mess we're in: remove the money incentive from national politics completely, starting with evicting all the lobbyists from Washington, and gutting the amount of money that flows into the political campaign warchests every election.

If there is one thing we should socialize, it's the political process itself. We have spending caps on pro sports teams; we should have spending caps on political campaigns as well. Give all the major candidates free television and media coverage during the election season. Eliminate corporate contributions entirely etc.

We just need to turn politics into a job that attracts people for the right reason: public service, as opposed to the reason most seem to get involved these days: personal aggrandizement.

Romney's fundraisers are aiming to raise a billion dollars to win this election. I'm sure Obama's are aiming for as close to that figure as possible too.

This is the root of all the problems we face as a nation, imo. It's all about the money needed to buy an election.

I really loathe my CUNTry.

*wtf

Adding video to channels (Wtf) - requested by ant.

I'm with Lantern53, who has already mentioned all the obvious points I wanted to make.

I also would like to add that it's always difficult to know whether if someone is actively promoting hate speech or just expressing an opinion when you're on internet, like here in VideoSift when you witness a post actively calling to kill a person using derogatory terms.

I don't disagree with anything that you've said. I think you are misunderstanding my point.

The problem is from what I have seen the people trying to enact change don't actually participate in the system. So other than marching, and banging on drums, and protesting they aren't actually accomplishing anything.

The Tea Party might not be the most successful group but it sure as hell worked in a lot of their endeavors. I haven't seen the Liberal Version of the tea party yet and I don't think I will.

>> ^petpeeved:

>> ^Darkhand:
>> ^petpeeved:
The revolution will not have a permit.

There will never be a revolution because the only people who seem to be upset about anything are hippies and hippies are non-violent.
Occupy Wall Street was the biggest let down because when asked if they planned on sponsoring any political parties they said "we don't recognize the system so we don't sponsor anyone" or some shit like that.
Unless this "revolution" is going to burn our current system to the ground, or actually get involved in politics nothing will happen.
Feel free to shout and bang your drums if it makes you feel better. But that's not a revolution it's just a mosquito buzzing in the ear of our capitalist government.

You seem to think that only violence can change the system at this point? I honestly don't know if there is any hope of reforming the government via policy and procedure but I doubt violence would change anything for the better either.
I may be a simpleton but there really does seem to be a silver bullet to the mess we're in: remove the money incentive from national politics completely, starting with evicting all the lobbyists from Washington, and gutting the amount of money that flows into the political campaign warchests every election.
If there is one thing we should socialize, it's the political process itself. We have spending caps on pro sports teams; we should have spending caps on political campaigns as well. Give all the major candidates free television and media coverage during the election season. Eliminate corporate contributions entirely etc.
We just need to turn politics into a job that attracts people for the right reason: public service, as opposed to the reason most seem to get involved these days: personal aggrandizement.
Romney's fundraisers are aiming to raise a billion dollars to win this election. I'm sure Obama's are aiming for as close to that figure as possible too.
This is the root of all the problems we face as a nation, imo. It's all about the money needed to buy an election.

These people aren't "participating in the system" because said participation requires great wealth. Those with great wealth have no interest in such an agenda.

Conversely, the Tea Party was an inadvertently pro-corporate movement quietly backed by millions of corporate dollars. That is why it worked. Ever seen footage of police quelling a Tea Party rally? There is no equivalency between the Tea Party and the Occupy movement.


>> ^Darkhand:

I don't disagree with anything that you've said. I think you are misunderstanding my point.
The problem is from what I have seen the people trying to enact change don't actually participate in the system. So other than marching, and banging on drums, and protesting they aren't actually accomplishing anything.
The Tea Party might not be the most successful group but it sure as hell worked in a lot of their endeavors. I haven't seen the Liberal Version of the tea party yet and I don't think I will.
>> ^petpeeved:
>> ^Darkhand:
>> ^petpeeved:
The revolution will not have a permit.

There will never be a revolution because the only people who seem to be upset about anything are hippies and hippies are non-violent.
Occupy Wall Street was the biggest let down because when asked if they planned on sponsoring any political parties they said "we don't recognize the system so we don't sponsor anyone" or some shit like that.
Unless this "revolution" is going to burn our current system to the ground, or actually get involved in politics nothing will happen.
Feel free to shout and bang your drums if it makes you feel better. But that's not a revolution it's just a mosquito buzzing in the ear of our capitalist government.

You seem to think that only violence can change the system at this point? I honestly don't know if there is any hope of reforming the government via policy and procedure but I doubt violence would change anything for the better either.
I may be a simpleton but there really does seem to be a silver bullet to the mess we're in: remove the money incentive from national politics completely, starting with evicting all the lobbyists from Washington, and gutting the amount of money that flows into the political campaign warchests every election.
If there is one thing we should socialize, it's the political process itself. We have spending caps on pro sports teams; we should have spending caps on political campaigns as well. Give all the major candidates free television and media coverage during the election season. Eliminate corporate contributions entirely etc.
We just need to turn politics into a job that attracts people for the right reason: public service, as opposed to the reason most seem to get involved these days: personal aggrandizement.
Romney's fundraisers are aiming to raise a billion dollars to win this election. I'm sure Obama's are aiming for as close to that figure as possible too.
This is the root of all the problems we face as a nation, imo. It's all about the money needed to buy an election.

You're saying you can't buy it out because the price is too high. Government Insiders, etc. etc. etc. I hear you and I agree. Which is why I'm saying these groups are pointless.

We either have to organize ourselves, all the small business owners in America, the middle class, blah blah blah, etc etc etc, and put our money together to do it.

Or hope some radical benevolent dictator military movements seizes control and then doesn't go mad with power and turns it back into a democracy.

Frankly I unfortunately don't think either are likely.

Occupy Wall Street got tons of Money but they didn't' do anything with it. I feel that was a great catalyst for more liberal people and it was squandered.

>> ^DuoJet:

These people aren't "participating in the system" because said participation requires great wealth. Those with great wealth have no interest in such an agenda.
Conversely, the Tea Party was an inadvertently pro-corporate movement quietly backed by millions of corporate dollars. That is why it worked. Ever seen footage of police quelling a Tea Party rally? There is no equivalency between the Tea Party and the Occupy movement.

Why do we have so many police sympathizers here? It is obvious that this sort of conduct goes on ALL OF THE TIME and no one is doing anything about and in fact it is illegal. I present KILL PIGS as more of a slogan.

I am not anonymous here... many people here know my voice and my face. Some people know where I live! So, shut the fuck up and Fuck the pigs. If you don't agree then you do not have firsthand experience with the way America actually is, right fucking now.

I was confronted with this sort of totalitarianism many times. One time most colleges let students out to protest unjust wars and we were faced with militarized police, I was taking photographs and I was batoned. Who won in court? I FUCKING DID MOTHER FUCKERS. I can't even tell you the amount of brutality I saw to people who were not doing anything in an illegal situation that the militarized pig fucks put us in. It's a tactic they use to break up just political uprisings and they get away with. Wake the fuck up! This AMERICA not 'MERICA.

>> ^lantern53:

Why do I always have to be the adult here?
In a large city like Anaheim you undoubtedly need a permit to march, which these people probably did not have, so therefore the demonstration is unlawful, and highly irritating to the people who work for a living and have to drive back and forth to work, the store, the childcare, the doctor, etc.
And the cops have to deal with people who are anarchists or just drones, and it's hard to tell them apart, especially when they hide behind anonymous avatars and say things like "KILL PIGS".

>> ^LarsaruS:

I'm not sure whether I should upvote for awareness or downvote the conduct of the officers...

I try to stick to a personal policy of "if it's worth commenting on, it's worth an upvote", even if I disagree with the content. Basically, do you think other people should see the video? Your upvote effectively raises a video's visibility.

>> ^DuoJet:

These people aren't "participating in the system" because said participation requires great wealth. Those with great wealth have no interest in such an agenda.

Exactly why the current system needs to be burned down. I don't think it's even possible to do that peacefully any more, as all peaceful methods of protest have been hamstrung by the very system being protested.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy

"Methods of thought which claim to give the lead to our world in the name of revolution have become, in reality, ideologies of consent and not of rebellion."
-Albert Camus

I'm often a police sympathizer. In this case I'd be interested in a little bit more context, but doubt it would really change my mind. This response seemed pretty disproportionate to the size of the rally, and you can't help but wonder if that has to do with the content of the rally.

At the same time, if you are the cops going to police the KILL PIGS rally, you probably want to make sure everyone is ready for anything. Unfortunately some precincts don't consider tolerance of mild civil disobedience. In cases like this it could be the most effective way to diffuse the situation. Worst thing that happens is they break a couple windows, set a dumpster on fire, and look like a bunch of assholes. Instead they have photos of you charging mickey mouse and your assault rifles and batons at the police brutality rally. That's some quality police work.

government really only reflects the mindset of the people.
we're stupid, so we have a stupid government.
but the older generations are REALLY stupid, and they're dying off. so there is reason to be optimistic.

>> ^criticalthud:

government really only reflects the mindset of the people.
we're stupid, so we have a stupid government.
but the older generations are REALLY stupid, and they're dying off. so there is reason to be optimistic.


Really? I'm not so sure. I think they were less enlightened, certainly, but what are we doing to prove we're less stupid?>> ^petpeeved:

I may be a simpleton but there really does seem to be a silver bullet to the mess we're in: remove the money incentive from national politics completely, starting with evicting all the lobbyists from Washington, and gutting the amount of money that flows into the political campaign warchests every election.

While I think that's a great idea, I'm very wary of the term "silver bullet". Fact is, that life is complex, and rarely has simple solutions. Economics and politics are an intricate interlocked system. Pulling on one thread alone never works.

The Mil-Po-po are just twitching to use all that gear they bought, all those armors, and guns, and trucks, and tactics. Any excuse to use that and see some action probably gets them pumped up. Unfortunately its just going to get worse and worse the more gagets they get. Ever look at a Gun magazine lately? Its full of "Tactical porn" and I bet every officer "wants" to be that guy with armor and cool looking guns, american flags and eagles, with scopes and knives and gasmasks. All that slick machined metal crafted to destroy your opposition.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^criticalthud:
government really only reflects the mindset of the people.
we're stupid, so we have a stupid government.
but the older generations are REALLY stupid, and they're dying off. so there is reason to be optimistic.

Really? I'm not so sure. I think they were less enlightened, certainly, but what are we doing to prove we're less stupid?>> ^petpeeved:
I may be a simpleton but there really does seem to be a silver bullet to the mess we're in: remove the money incentive from national politics completely, starting with evicting all the lobbyists from Washington, and gutting the amount of money that flows into the political campaign warchests every election.
While I think that's a great idea, I'm very wary of the term "silver bullet". Fact is, that life is complex, and rarely has simple solutions. Economics and politics are an intricate interlocked system. Pulling on one thread alone never works.


there positives and negatives to be sure.
but overall for the species, the introduction of the internet allows a greater flow of information. This both increases overall awareness and allows for new associations to be drawn between bits of information. The overall effect is a palpable positive for intelligence, which despite our misplaced reliance on standardized testing, is heavily dependent on both awareness and the ability to create information associations based on logical connections.

The over 60 crowd is from a different era of both energy availability and access to information.
so i say, be a little patient. our timeline is much more instant - we demand instant change without necessarily being aware of how the tendencies of the species is changing . but in terms of evolution, we are changing rapidly, and the greatest catalyst, global/planet change, is just starting to take hold.

>> ^bobknight33:

And some want to ban guns. Things will get worse and you will wish you had the right to arm yourself. -- But then it will be too late.


WHO wants to take your guns? You are either just regurgitating provocative crap, or paranoia has taken over as you enter the procurement phase of your own massacre.

If a revolution did happen, and "they" did come for our guns, the tree of liberty would be well refreshed on your blood, Mr. Patriot, but history will look back on said revolution as the Great Nutter Purge.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^LarsaruS:
I'm not sure whether I should upvote for awareness or downvote the conduct of the officers...
I keep arguing that all people who are in marches should have their placards on, at least, 7 foot poles with a sharp point. So they bring in the horses or do cavalry charges? Say hello to my pike wall and enjoy sticking around.

Yeah, that's a sensible solution that won't have any negative consequences.


Killing horses isn't the same as killing humans. For one thing, horses stop.

I don't know why they had to bring Disney into this. Aside from proximity, they don't have a dog in that fight.

Stay the hell away from Disneyland or we will KILL you.

>> ^Yogi:

Killing horses isn't the same as killing humans. For one thing, horses stop.


Go out and spear a police horse. Let me know how you get on.

If a protest involves hordes of people marching in the street, blocking traffic and generally being loud and annoying, I don't really consider that "peaceful." It may not be violent but it's entirely disruptive and hinders people's ability to get where they need to go and do what they need to do.

You can try and justify the disruption by saying that it's the only way to get attention but really, you would only say that if you agreed with the protestors. If a bunch of people marched on the streets because the MSRP of Twinkies was raised by 5 cents, would that protest still be "justified"? A disruption is a disruption, regardless of motivation. If the protestors in the video had permits and conducted their activity in a genuinely peaceful manner, I seriously doubt there would have been any police intervention.

Complaining that a protest is disrupting your freedom is like complaining about butchery while eating a hamburger.

>> ^lantern53:

Why do I always have to be the adult here?
In a large city like Anaheim you undoubtedly need a permit to march, which these people probably did not have, so therefore the demonstration is unlawful, and highly irritating to the people who work for a living and have to drive back and forth to work, the store, the childcare, the doctor, etc.
And the cops have to deal with people who are anarchists or just drones, and it's hard to tell them apart, especially when they hide behind anonymous avatars and say things like "KILL PIGS".


I'd argue that you're being immature, rather than adult.

Adults question bullshit. Kids swallow whatever they're told and indeed adopt it for themselves. Your government has managed to get you to help opress your fellow citizen.

>> ^Jerykk:

If a protest involves hordes of people marching in the street, blocking traffic and generally being loud and annoying, I don't really consider that "peaceful." It may not be violent but it's entirely disruptive and hinders people's ability to get where they need to go and do what they need to do.
You can try and justify the disruption by saying that it's the only way to get attention but really, you would only say that if you agreed with the protestors. If a bunch of people marched on the streets because the MSRP of Twinkies was raised by 5 cents, would that protest still be "justified"? A disruption is a disruption, regardless of motivation. If the protestors in the video had permits and conducted their activity in a genuinely peaceful manner, I seriously doubt there would have been any police intervention.


You only see what you want to see. The only people being disruptive and blocking traffic in this video are the cops and their fucking horses.

And who said you have a right to life without "disruption" anyway? You gonna call the police when that asshole won't stop talking in the movie theater? You going to just keep your mouth shut and walk away peacefully when that cashier overcharges you for your Twinkies? Maybe your idea of protest is standing quietly on some street corner, permit in pocket, holding a sign. It's not my idea of protest (not any more), and if disruptions bother you, stay home and veg on VS all day. Just remember to be quiet and keep your opinions to yourself, because I feel they are disruptive, and they bother me.

>> ^Fletch:

>> ^Jerykk:
If a protest involves hordes of people marching in the street, blocking traffic and generally being loud and annoying, I don't really consider that "peaceful." It may not be violent but it's entirely disruptive and hinders people's ability to get where they need to go and do what they need to do.
You can try and justify the disruption by saying that it's the only way to get attention but really, you would only say that if you agreed with the protestors. If a bunch of people marched on the streets because the MSRP of Twinkies was raised by 5 cents, would that protest still be "justified"? A disruption is a disruption, regardless of motivation. If the protestors in the video had permits and conducted their activity in a genuinely peaceful manner, I seriously doubt there would have been any police intervention.

You only see what you want to see. The only people being disruptive and blocking traffic in this video are the cops and their fucking horses.
And who said you have a right to life without "disruption" anyway? You gonna call the police when that asshole won't stop talking in the movie theater? You going to just keep your mouth shut and walk away peacefully when that cashier overcharges you for your Twinkies? Maybe your idea of protest is standing quietly on some street corner, permit in pocket, holding a sign. It's not my idea of protest (not any more), and if disruptions bother you, stay home and veg on VS all day. Just remember to be quiet and keep your opinions to yourself, because I feel they are disruptive, and they bother me.


Flawed analogies. If you're telling someone to quiet down in a theater, you are directly addressing the person you take issue with. If you tell a cashier that he overcharged you, same deal. Nobody aside from the people directly responsible for your grievances are affected. Conversely, when you block traffic so you can protest against police brutality, who are you actually affecting? The cops will show up and do what they get paid to do. Bystanders, on the other hand, get screwed.

If you want to protest police brutality, do it where only police are affected. Like a police station. Don't do it in the middle of a business area where you're just impeding people's ability to live their lives. If you're so self-centered that you're willing to promote your agenda at the expense of everyone else, don't surprised when people get irritated. And when these people have body armor, guns, tazers, tear gas, pepper spray, riot shields, etc, things probably won't end well for you.

I am against police brutality and abuse of power, but one reaction thereto that I cannot stand is when stupid people lump every police officer/agent together as the target of their hate and violence (verbal and sometimes physical), e.g. @shagen454's comment above. In a country like America, for every 1 cop abusing his/her power, 100 are catching murderers, rapists, thieves, making sure your streets are safe, finding your stolen vehicule, giving tourists directions, and generally helping to keep society safe and functional.

There are a lot of things that need changing in our societies, and protest is a valid way of making a point heard, but I have the feeling that some people do it just to have an excuse to taunt authority, puff their chest, or plain ol' break shit and pillage. Especially since, unlike the northern Africa countries a few years ago, the US and the EU are still democratic(-ish) places which allow for a number of legitimate ways to try to effect change.

>> ^lurgee:

I really loathe my CUNTry.


Hometown of Disneyland ain't shit compared to the crackdown party the cops'll have in Sunny Baltimore...

hey, we used to be the heroin capital a few years ago.>> ^chingalera:

>> ^lurgee:
I really loathe my CUNTry.

Hometown of Disneyland ain't shit compared to the crackdown party the cops'll have in Sunny Baltimore...

As far as protests go, I hear you guys were somewhat successful with your Boston Tea Party. I hear it escalated somewhat after that as well. How'd that work out for you?