longde says...

Soooooooo......use ad hominem attacks and non sequetors to persuade young intellects?

Some group should hold a counterprotest. Give away bibles with introductions that point out the inconsistencies of the bible and the history of Christianity.

IAmTheBlurr says...

Upvote because more people need to see this nonsense. This is the most despicable thing that these people have ever attempted. This kind of thing just makes my skin crawl.

They're getting extremely desperate, it's almost unthinkable.

Jaace says...

Well, I'd take the argument that nothing created everything over a big invisible man in the sky created everything...and then went on to send his benevolent cannibalistic zombie son to earth to save us all, which of course is still him, and when he dies, he is also still God.

Which is more rational? Those of the "I'm not sure yet, we haven't figured everything out yet, and we probably never will" school of thought or the "I know everything because my God told me so and he wrote a brief synopsis that is very similar to Aesop's Fables" school of thought?

schlub says...

He's attacking Darwin for being racist and having "disdain for women"? Riiiighhhttt.... because Christians are known for their acceptance of everyone. It's not like the bible endorses slavery or wife beating... *cough*


"All we want to do is present the opposing - and CORRECT - view" and "these students should be given both sides of the argument and allowed to make up their own mind right?" So, students will get a copy of the Origin of Species and some other material saying "everything in the origin of species is bullshit!" Hmm, yeah, that's pretty fair and balanced

And as like any religious programming, it ends with "Send us your money!!!!!"

notarobot says...

I wonder how they are planning to connect Hitler to Darwin?

"...And then in 1938, Hitler used his voodoo-devil-magic to the devices his Nazi scientists were building to complete the time machine so he could travel back to 1859 to teach Darwin about what evilution!"

Now that I think about it, that must be exactly what happened!

inflatablevagina says...

I just watched a Ben Stein movie called "Expelled" hoping for an interesting side to Intelligent Design. What I was left with is something that reminds me of this. Hitler is connected to Darwin by way of Eugenics. So the basic thought behind most of these kinds of deals is "If you believe in evolution you are a nazi and a baby killer".... no yeah, it makes perfect sense..... Is there a polite way to exit from society?

brain says...

BTW, I'm seriously going to try to get one of these copies of Darwin's Origin of Species. I'll be looking around my campus on Nov 19th.

Also, I like how he starts out with 3 lies.

1. Our kids can no longer pray in public.
Uh... yes they can.

2. They can no longer freely open a bible in school
Uh... yes they can. Most high schools even have religious prayer groups. It is just required that they're organized by students, so that our public schools aren't forcing their religions on students.

3. The 10 commandments are no longer allowed to be displayed in public places
Uh.. Yes they are. I think he's getting this confused with government sponsored displays of the 10 commandments, which violates the first amendment.

I guess he really wants the government to be forcing their religion on everyone else... just so long as it's the same religion he agrees with.

gwiz665 says...

The argument that from darwin to hitler goes something like this, I would think

Darwin -> Evolution (darwinism) -> Social Darwinism -> Eugenics -> Hitler

And it's just wrong and misguided.

jimnms says...

I looked on the website, but I didn't see a list of the universities they're going to be handing these out at. I'd like to get one. You can download and read the 50 page introduction by Ray Comfort here.

lv_hunter says...

So someone should write an intro to the bible then. Telling how its a work of fiction and how many contridictions is has, and that even though they say god is peacful and loving, that he was also pretty manevolent and vengeful.

Drachen_Jager says...

Hmmm, among intellectuals athiesm and agnosticism have become dominant. Is this;

A) because they're godless heathens corrupted by other godless types within the unholy university system.

B) because they're SMART, they can figure things out for themselves and don't always just accept ideas at face value but rather treat them with some critical thought.

I dunno Kirk, tough call...

Bruti79 says...

This was a lot of BS, until he mentioned the free poster. That sold me right there! Evolution vs. Jesus, I'll support who ever gives me the free poster!

joedirt says...

DID THESE NUTS REALIZE SANE PEOPLE WILL JUST RIP OUT THE FORWARD AND THEN HAVE A FREE COPY?

I'm guessing they did and have mashed up Darwin's Origin with lots of gospels in between chapters.

fjules says...

LOL! I like how he says Hitler like it's a bad thing. Hitler truly believed that what he was doing was right and in theory, as sick as it may sound, his application of race selection would have actually improved the society in the long run.

Throbbin says...

>> ^doremifa:
The bible needs to be revised.


Considering how much he is talking about Universities, I think the bible should be peer-reviewed. Mohammed, Abraham, Buddha, Vishnu, and the FSM can all have at it. I would pay enormous sums of money for that version.

dystopianfuturetoday says...

The fatal flaw in this plan is that your typical college student is unlikely to just sit down and read 'Origin of Species' unless it were assigned reading in a class, in which case they would most likely need a specific annotated edition of the book.

chilaxe says...

>> ^fjules:
Hitler truly believed that what he was doing was right and in theory, as sick as it may sound, his application of race selection would have actually improved the society in the long run.

Really? The sub-cluster of the population with Jewish ancestry trends toward elevated IQs.* Good. I'm glad there are people like Einstein in the world.

Tymbrwulf says...

>> ^chilaxe:
>> ^fjules:
Hitler truly believed that what he was doing was right and in theory, as sick as it may sound, his application of race selection would have actually improved the society in the long run.

Really? The sub-cluster of the population with Jewish ancestry trends toward elevated IQs. Good. I'm glad there are people like Einstein in the world.


Ok i'm not agreeing with fjules just to get it straight. But anytime I see a link that cites a source about a scientific journal, I would like to see that article and the journal it was published in, not some opinionated news story that tries to interpret what the journal says.

Ryjkyj says...

I'd think they'd want to go right to the heart of the problem instead of dancing around the issue. Cause' quite franky, the only reason I'm an atheist is: Kirk Cameron.

lv_hunter says...

Ray Comfort has a blog and hes talking about the book. In a reply in the forums he said;

"Why are you so worried about my opinion? I simply give the other side of the argument. That's healthy. Students aren't dumb. Let them make up their own minds."

So hes talkin about college students, who are adults. Seems if youre in college youve made up your mind on somethings, this shouldnt sway anyone; other then weak minded people or gullible ones.

dmaze says...

OK, how do you think Kirk would reply to rational people mashing up the bible with commentary pointing out MASSIVE INCONSISTENCIES at Easter? Parishioners are smart. Let them make up their own minds.

chilaxe says...

>> ^Tymbrwulf:
>> ^chilaxe:
>> ^fjules

Ok i'm not agreeing with fjules just to get it straight. But anytime I see a link that cites a source about a scientific journal, I would like to see that article and the journal it was published in, not some opinionated news story that tries to interpret what the journal says.

Going straight to the science journals is great. The pre-print of the scientific paper is available here. It was published in: Journal of Biosocial Science 38 (5), pp. 659–693 (2006).

I'm an advocate for both sides, so I want to say, if the sub-cluster of the population referred to in that paper experienced a unique natural selection environment (it seems hard to argue they didn't), knowing it shouldn't bother us. I think our job in the 21st century is to spread various personal benefits like that to all of us, and to that end, I would never turn down a treasure trove of data such as that paper

Sagemind says...

Isn't the bible public domain?
It could be exploited as well.

Edit: OK, I just tried reading that 50 page intro. It was like getting smacked in the face with a "Stupid Stick" - I could not continue reading it...

gwiz665 says...

I haven't even though I want to. Anyone who hasn't feel free to upvote this as an indication of that.

>> ^detheter:
How many people here have read The Origin Of Species? i mean, the non fucked one? Just fmi

laura says...

yes, I agree with Cameron...because the only reason intelligent university students don't believe in God is that they just haven't been told about him enough/in the right way. You have to try different ways of pounding it into their heads. I want one of these books so badly.

laura says...

...oh, and somebody's brother's cousin's uncle who knows a guy in the ministry business has a printing press. Just sayin'.

TangledThorns says...

I believe in a God but not in any religion but found Athiest rhetoric is just pure anti-Christian. I'd like to see that same rhetoric used on Muslims.

tedbater says...

>> ^nanrod:
I wonder if it ever occurs to Kirk that maybe there's a correlation between higher IQ's and lack of religious belief.


I'm a doctor and have strong faith in Christ.

syncron says...

Please let this man be kidnapped and tortured by fundamentalist Islamics so that he may learn the benevolence of his god.

Just an afterthought, could I request a thousand copies of his book and hold a fun little community book burning?

Sagemind says...

Look,
I don't care about the regular Joe/Jane who has faith in whatever religion that gives them peace of mind. I really don't! For the most part, church going people are good people. They help each other out, they have a strong conscience to do good by their fellow man, they would never hesitate to share what they have and so on. Kudos to them.

What I have issues with is when someone starts to force their belief system on other people. Like they are doing a favour for someone who just doesn't know it yet. Saving them even! I'd sit and listen to a Muslim story because there's knowledge in knowing what's out there. I'd do the same for any Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. Just don't tell me that your way is the only way. And definitely NEVER tell me that my way is the WRONG way. Don't infiltrate what I believe and I will respect what you believe. I may not believe it, but I will respect it.

What they are doing here is waging war with people not just with differing belief’s, but with people who choose not to have any belief. People who have minds which delve deeper into situations to dig out any spark of truth that’s available. A scientific mind is one that is still evolving, still considering possibilities and never settling for one all governing answer. We want the one theory of every thing, even though we realize we will never obtain it. Until then, we are OK to accept that we are not all-knowing. We are humbled by the universe at large and always strive to learn more.

Don’t come in and tell people to stop learning. Don’t tell people that all their thinking has already been done for them, and that they just have to accept it. Don’t tell people that it’s right there in that book. A working, functioning, striving mind won’t just roll over and stop thinking because your religion has all the answers. It doesn’t! In fact, your religion was written down by men who thought that their ideas should govern over every one else’s.

What I’m trying to say is, if someone wants to just accept theory without proof, great, go ahead. But don’t go around telling everyone else to give up on thinking as well. There are a large percentage who don’t want to be sheep in some one else’s flock. So Flock off!

oscarillo says...

>> ^tedbater:
>> ^nanrod:
I wonder if it ever occurs to Kirk that maybe there's a correlation between higher IQ's and lack of religious belief.

I'm a doctor and have strong faith in Christ.


I think non educated people are easy to convince of something (and most or ALL of the times is for the benefit of who ever is trying to convice them)
BUT! most of the time non educated religios people are willing to help you out more that the so call non religious "Intelligent ones"

I do belive in GOD but not on ANY religion

and I do have a bachelor degree in computer science

>> ^Sagemind:
What I have issues with is when someone starts to force their belief system on other people. Like they are doing a favour for someone who just doesn't know it yet. Saving them even! I'd sit and listen to a Muslim story because there's knowledge in knowing what's out there. I'd do the same for any Christian, Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. Just don't tell me that your way is the only way. And definitely NEVER tell me that my way is the WRONG way. Don't infiltrate what I believe and I will respect what you believe. I may not believe it, but I will respect it.

And that's exacly the problem now with the atheists, instead of "going to hell" if you dont belive has they , "you are stupid"

Issykitty says...

"...And that's exacly the problem now with the atheists, instead of "going to hell" if you dont belive has they , 'you are stupid' "

Westy sock-puppet?

gwiz665 says...

oscarillo, I can see the point of view you are presenting "Be an atheist or you're an idiot" as a parallel to "Become a catholic or go to hell", but I don't think that this is meant in that way. It's not that a religious man can't look at the evidence, it's that he doesn't want to.

I think people tend to overlook certain things when they look at their religion, like when they look at themselves, their child, parents, car etc. They see what they want to see, and science cuts through that. Any given scientist may see what he want to see in his evidence, but the scientific method directly encourages other scientists in that very same area to find as many flaws in the stated hypothesis, which weeds out all the ones that are flawed.

So, I'm not just saying "your way is wrong", I'm saying that I think it is wrong and if you look at the world around you, at the evidence, you likely won't find a shred of evidence supporting your conclusion (that God exists).

braindonut says...

>> ^TangledThorns:
I believe in a God but not in any religion but found Athiest rhetoric is just pure anti-Christian. I'd like to see that same rhetoric used on Muslims.


It is. Constantly. For instance, read "god isn't Great"

braindonut says...

They can distribute their little anti-evolution books and it'll be a hilarious attempt that fails miserably. They will be easily countered by the PROOF of evolution. The only people that will be affected by the books are the fundamentalist christians handing them out, or the fundamentalist christians receiving them. Nothing will change, other than ill-informed, ignorant creationists will now carry this book around, repeatedly quoting misinformation from it, rather than sloppily quoting misinformation from memory...

wraith says...

I really didn't know whether to upvote this. :-)

An to go on a wild tangent...

To the Eugenics debaters:
IMHO the fundamental problem with Eugenics is that human genetic diversity is really small, when compared to other animals, meaning that the complete human genome is rather uniform. This is not good in evolutionary terms. Eugenics plans to make that gene pool even smaller by eradicating "unwanted" strains of DNA.

The problem that follows from this is that we simply do not know which genes might become important for our species survival in the future. Maybe the "gene for alcoholism" might one day protect people from a new kind of disease.

Or to put it in a unscientific but more moving way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxq3A2FHBh8

chilaxe says...

"Human genetic diversity is really small, when compared to other animals."

I think those kinds of statements derive from promotion of the unity of humankind ('humans share 99% of the same DNA, so we shouldn't fight wars' etc.) and are thus intended as normative statements, not positive statements. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normative )

Some groups of humans have been separated by geographic bottlenecks for a long time, and we have an enormous total population, so there's a pretty large range of diversity.


The geographic history of humankind is fascinating.

The last common human ancestor is commonly implied to be when some tribes left Africa for the Middle East 50k-100k years ago etc., but there are pockets of humans that are outliers in that narrative... the Khoisan people in the Kalahari desert (the folks who talk with a clicking language in the movie the Gods Must be Crazy) are a remnant of an earlier people who lived in Southern Africa before the Bantu expansion of West Africans that swept across much of the continent. There are also human clusters that descend from tribes that left Africa even before the Middle Eastern exit, via Madagascar and the islands that dot the Indian Ocean.

Also, in recent work like the 2009 book the 10,000 Year Explosion, it's becoming clear that a lot of our diversity has arisen in the last 10,000 years, so it's not necessary when pointing to how much diversity we have to go back to ancient migrations 100k years ago.


All of that genetic diversity is somewhat beside the point, though, because in the reprogenetics driven by embryo-selection that's being used now in in-vitro fertilization to filter out disease genes and will see increased usage each decade proportional to our increasing genomic knowledge, instead of parents caring about the uniquenesses of ancient human geographic history, they care about genes that correlate with low rates of addictive behavior, etc.

brain says...

On the Hitler argument, it is extremely easy to disprove that Hitler was caused by evolution. Long before Darwin discovered evolution, we had selective breeding. People selectively bred pigs, horses, dogs, or any animal that we kept. The idea of selective breeding had been around forever. Hitler could have existed without Darwin's discovery. Darwin's discovery was NATURAL selection.

Mi1ler says...

Not only will you receive this brilliant full color book that retails for 29.95 but if you denounce science in the next 30min, cause we cant do this all day, we will give you a free prayer cross. Hold the lords prayer close to your heart with this prayer cross with genuine Austrian crystal, hold it up to the light and the entire lords prayer is revealed.

So that's the book and the cross in the next 30min yours free all you need to do is just send a prayer to god and he will send someone directly to your location with everything we told you about all this is free (excluding S&H)

brain says...

Oh yeah, and I love how everyone tries to claim Einstein agreed with them. It's rather strange. It happened during his life time and he addressed his religious beliefs over and over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic."

"I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

NORTHSIDE says...

I am tempted to go to Living Waters to order as many books as possible, keep this pack of lies off the streets. Not mention that I am certain both Einstein and Newton were agnostic at best.

Xaielao says...

I love how it begins with 'athiest evolution' and 'Darwin's undeniable connection to Hitler' and ends with 'Now.. send us some money.'


Anyone else suspect they passed these books, that look like the 'real' book, without a word about the additions and modifications?

Like a Jahova's Witness' passing out magazines with fighter jets on the cover and absolutely no clue that it's Christian's pushing their God drug.



Frankly I think a lot of even the obama hysteria is that people know Christianity is slowly dying out as the overwhelmingly majority religion in this country, and I for one couldn't be more happy. USA as a secular nation outside the cities? One could only wish.

Xaielao says...

I noticed someone mentioned Ben Stein's movie about Intelligent Design. I watched it via Netflix because I'ms till interested in reading or hearing an opposing scientific theory to Evolution. But once again I was disappointed as the movie didn't even try to give an opposing theory, it just boiled down to 'dna is more complex then outer space, therefor its too complex to have occurred naturally, it MUST have been designed!'


I might actually give ID a seconds thought if someone, anyone, would actually give me a THEORY OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN. But no, it's all 'this is why Evolution ISN'T true' but nothing on why ID is, beyond of course 'because god made it.'

spoco2 says...

OK:

A) I love the sift. If this were Youtube there'd be a host of 'Kirk is a FAG!' or 'YEAH KIRK, GOD LOVE YOU!' comments. Instead we have good discourse, with most of it being utter distain for this horrendous video and the thoughts contained within... which is fine by me as it makes my blood boil.

B) Trying to suggest that all the current ills are due to lack of belief in the bible is such unmitigated bullshit it doesn't bare discussion.

C) Again... single religion education DOES NOT BELONG IN SCHOOL. Here in Australia it DISGUSTS me that both at the primary school where my son goes to, and the one he is moving to, they both have Religious education... which is ok... EXCEPT that it is CHRISTIAN religious education and they are taught it as FACT... THAT is disgusting. There are Christian Schools for that if you want it, this is a PUBLIC SCHOOL, State run, it should be religious neutral. In his current school we had ticked the box that said 'we do not want religious education', but they forgot that so he got a few weeks of it, and now, along with a few other kids (thanks to my wife speaking up), they get to join another class while theirs has RE.

In the school he is going to next year where we know a lot of the parents, they too have a similar RE. Once my wife mentioned to them that she had got our son taken out of it, a number of those parents asked for their kids to be taken out too... People are sheep and just accept things unless they know it's possible to change things.

I would LOVE for our kids to get a broad based 'Religions of the world' education... taught about all the religions, all the stories, all the beliefs that there are. BUT not taught them as fact or right or wrong... just 'Here's what people of X faith believe, and here's what people of Y faith believe'. It would give them far more empathy for people of other faiths, far more understanding of why people do what they do ('Why don't they have bacon?', 'Why don't they have Christmas' etc.) and end up with less bigotry.


I HATE this 'WE ARE RIGHT' 'YOU ARE WRONG' shit.

NO ONE knows that they are RIGHT on the meaning of life, if you think you do, then you are wrong. To know that you do not know is the only intelligence.

Let everyone believe what they want to believe, but let others pursue their greater understanding of the world through science, and let others pursue their greater understanding through philosophy or religion... DON'T try to stop others doing this, it is THEIR RIGHT.

spoco2 says...

Oh... and... I haven't read any of the comments, but it is THEIR RIGHT to be able to give out this book... good luck to them, go for it.

It's also another group's right to stand right next to them and hand out flyers that denounce all of what they have written as absolute shit too.

If anyone is saying they should be lynched or banned or stopped... No... they can go for it... just others should present the opposing view.

choggie says...

Here's an opinion on the subject in an, easy-to-digest format, for the mentally and spiritually unchallenged..........




From your trolling pal, choggie.

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