In that video, everyone sitting to the left of Jesse Ventura is a complete moron.

^ On either side really, but I agree with the moron in the middle.

"Extreme Interregation"
Mondays 9pm on Fox.

"If they're not bleeding, we're not doing our jobs."

fucking idiots

I like how everyone gets kinda quiet when Jesse suggests we only water board Muslims, the truth is a bit uncomfortable sometimes eh.

I love how Elizabeth keeps trying to get the moral high ground, and get's promptly thrown down every time. Trying to compare it to the guy being rescued from the pirates, saying water boarding got the information from the one terrorist, trying to make it all Pelosi's fault, 'enhanced interrogation', she's doing the denial twist all over the place.

I couldn't understand how he was elected gov. of Minnesota when I was younger, living next door in Wisconsin. Lately I've begun to understand why.

Good on Jesse to turn up the heat.

Hasselbeck joked that Nancy Pelosi should be subjected to "enhanced interrogation" for daring to question the pristine honor of the CIA.

Isn't that funny?

Aren't conservatives great?

Yes

She seems to think fruit is bad but apples aren't.

I love the contrast between Jesse's thoughtful measured speech, and Elizabeth's fast-forwarded talking point regurgitation.

I think Jesse Ventura might be getting adopted by us progressives for this issue. He's done the best job of anyone in making clear a) that what we did was torture, b) that torture shouldn't be done by us and c) none of the excuses for it that have been used by anyone change a or b.

The only thing that rankled me about what he said was that as an Independent, he alone would want to prosecute everyone.

He's dead wrong about that. The progressives are more than happy to send everyone involved in this whole torture program to jail, no matter what letter is on their jersey.

I hope the Republicans get very angry about Pelosi failing to stop Bush and Cheney from torturing people, and join with us in asking for a special prosecutor so we can just put aside all the politics, and simply enforce the law. That way both sides can be properly held accountable for their actions.

>> ^dirtythirtyix:
I love the contrast between Jesse's thoughtful measured speech, and Elizabeth's fast-forwarded talking point regurgitation.


That's something I've noticed when people are having to do verbal gymnastics to justify their points... youhavetotalkreallyfasttomakesureyourpointgetsoutinthefifteensecondsyouhave. Whereas the morally obvious choices are easily summed up in those fifteen seconds: Why don't police do it? Why did we make such a fuss when Vietnam did it to us? Guantanamo is OUR Hanoi Hilton.

The more difficult your argument is to make, the faster you have to talk to try to trip up the other folks. It's not necessarily a good way to tell who's right and who's wrong, but I daresay it gives a pretty damn good impression of it.

"That's a good question, I understand that question"

I call bullshit on that.

*politics
*law

Adding video to channels (Law, Politics) - requested by NetRunner.

^what netrunner said.
jesse venture is not the first to state these things,but it's a LOT harder for media tools to discount his argument.helps when your a former S.E.A.L AND governor.
there IS no argument.waterboarding=torture,its against the law international AND national..period..end of discussion.
if you think there is a "gray" area,stop watching glenn back and go read a book,
maybe a history book.
may i suggest the nuremburg and japanese trials of world war 2.may i also suggest you stop taking a media commentators words as historically accurate statements....they are not.
just a thought...

wish I had promote power

and the power to slap that bitch silly from where I'm sitting

I think world peace...
...could be achieved with a Tag Team Cage Match - fight to the death:

Arnold Schwarzenegger & Jesse Ventura v. Rush Limbaugh & Glenn Beck

My god she is insanely stupid and just laps up anything she's told from conservatives.

How can ANYONE with a straight face say 'Torture is wrong but "enhanced interrogation techniques are different"'? Really, are you THAT fricken stupid as to actually buy any of the renaming that politicians do on things like this....

Really scary that someone can be against 'torture' but ok with 'enhanced interrogation'... to be able to accept EXACTLY the same thing when just renamed is so incredibly dumb.

I won't 'Smack her across the face', I'll use 'enhanced point making techniques'.

Stupid, stupid, stupid woman.

oh, never mind, the title... made me think it was... nevermind.

Ventura/Norris 2012!!

>> ^JiggaJonson:
Ventura/Norris 2012!!


Have you heard Norris' political positions? Palin effect all over again.

^Yeah, Norris is a fucking nut!

I heart Jesse Ventura.

I was ashamed when I voted for him after the debacle that was his governorship, but honestly now I'm coming back around to understand that he was caught in the middle of a political machine that he wouldn't bargain with.

Oddly enough, I respect him even more now.

>> ^spoco2:
Really scary that someone can be against 'torture' but ok with 'enhanced interrogation'... to be able to accept EXACTLY the same thing when just renamed is so incredibly dumb.


Some people are alright with water boarding because the general image of torture is stuff like cutting off someone's finger or doing something painful. The rewording works because water boarding -appears- not to actually harm the victim.

Like the one video where the man's logic was, 'Well I can hold my breath for thirty seconds easily, how hard can this be?'. Throw in a healthy dose of fearing the enemy into all of this and many many people look no further. TA-DA enhanced interrogation it is!

Then of course there's a more base outlook by some that goes along the lines of, 'Well it's either us or them, so F'em. Do whatever you need to.', which is a side I think some people cover up when they speak on these issues.

Well, Pennypacker is running late, so I'll chime in.

How does Ventura--who really should know better--equate scum terrorists who are not soldiers and therefore have no rights or legal protections (except ones fabricated by the American Criminal Liars Union) with legitimate soldiers fighting under a nation's flag?

U.S. citizens, who have actual rights and protections under the law, cannot legally be waterboarded, not even a McVeigh. So that answers that.

Only Muslims get waterboarded? Right. And only Muslims seem to be cutting off heads, but we don't talk about that, not politically correct to offend jihadists. Speaking of which, when old Chinese women or Hare Krishnas declare jihad and start homicide bombing, maybe they'll get a turn under the agua.

Would you be able to tell the families of victims and survivors of a terrorist attack that "due to maintaining higher moral ground" we didn't torture a detainee with possible information that might have prevented it? I couldn't.

Who cares what a former 'Survivor' contestant thinks about hot-button political issues? Oh yeah, the same people who care what Miss USA California thinks about gay marriage. And what Miss Wasilla thinks about Russia. Jesus. These are the intellectual heavyweights of the Republican Party. And they wonder why they got their asses whipped in the last election.

>> ^NetRunner:
I think Jesse Ventura might be getting adopted by us progressives for this issue. He's done the best job of anyone in making clear a) that what we did was torture, b) that torture shouldn't be done by us and c) none of the excuses for it that have been used by anyone change a or b.
The only thing that rankled me about what he said was that as an Independent, he alone would want to prosecute everyone.
He's dead wrong about that. The progressives are more than happy to send everyone involved in this whole torture program to jail, no matter what letter is on their jersey.
I hope the Republicans get very angry about Pelosi failing to stop Bush and Cheney from torturing people, and join with us in asking for a special prosecutor so we can just put aside all the politics, and simply enforce the law. That way both sides can be properly held accountable for their actions.


Oh, gimme a break Mr. progressive. What the hell is a progressive? Democrats are as bad as the neo-cons. They started Vietnam, in which we lost 50,000 young men in a freaking jungle for no reason but to line the pockets of the military industrial complex, and half the democrats voted for Iraq. Neither party has clean hands, you can only find individuals who voted their conscious and serve their country above their party. Obama can't do #2.

>> ^quantumushroom:
And only Muslims seem to be cutting off heads, but we don't talk about that, not politically correct to offend jihadists.


Mmmm ... ok, so, you're saying Mexican drug lords are muslim extremists? Oh, and about a zillion other examples, both current and historical.

Not to mention, if the only gauge of moral behaviour is the other guy, I think we are all in for a world of hurt. And anarchy.

Ventura is a former Navy SEAL and Governor.. he has more clout discussing these topics than most people.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
Who cares what a former 'Survivor' contestant thinks about hot-button political issues? Oh yeah, the same people who care what Miss USA California thinks about gay marriage. And what Miss Wasilla thinks about Russia. Jesus. These are the intellectual heavyweights of the Republican Party. And they wonder why they got their asses whipped last election.


There is no proof that torturing people gives better information than without torture. This is a ridiculous argument to make.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Would you be able to tell the families of victims and survivors of a terrorist attack that "due to maintaining higher moral ground" we didn't torture a detainee with possible information that might have prevented it? I couldn't.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Would you be able to tell the families of victims and survivors of a terrorist attack that "due to maintaining higher moral ground" we didn't torture a detainee with possible information that might have prevented it? I couldn't.


So why stop there?

Let's torture everybody who might conceivably harm someone.

Torture has gotten us zero pertinant information, and it has inflamed the Arab world against us.

And since when did fascists like you give a shit what the families of victims thought?

You hide behind victims the same way you hide behind the troops and your bogus patriotism.

Listen to yourselves, cons. Listen to what you're saying.

No one's going to forget it, least of all me.

Hasselbeck is a retard who just spews talking points she has been fed. She honestly thinks "enhanced interrogation techniques" are different from torture because that is what she has been told.

By the way, I'd be happy to be the one to tell the families in qm's example. Because it has never happened, and it will never happen. As Ventura almost was able to explain, the only reason we used torture was to get high level detainees to confess to false information attempting to link Al-Qaeda and Iraq.

A moral society does not torture prisoners. Ever.

And to think, most of the people who defend torture also claim to base their morality on religion. Hmmm...

>> ^quantumushroom:
Well, Pennypacker is running late, so I'll chime in.
How does Ventura--who really should know better--equate scum terrorists who are not soldiers and therefore have no rights or legal protections (except ones fabricated by the American Criminal Liars Union) with legitimate soldiers fighting under a nation's flag?


Because he fought under that flag with honour, and everyone involved with the torture from the guy holding the water bottle to Bush are no better than the scum terrorists. And they besmirch the honour and image of the thousands of people who serve your country both at home and abroad in the armed forces and government, who would not do such a thing.

Remind me again how you have served your country? Working at McDonalds doesn't really count as 'serving your country' btw. ; )

[spam redacted]

^Some privileged people want to flag the above comment as spam?

>> ^quantumushroom:
How does Ventura--who really should know better--equate scum terrorists who are not soldiers and therefore have no rights or legal protections (except ones fabricated by the American Criminal Liars Union) with legitimate soldiers fighting under a nation's flag?
U.S. citizens, who have actual rights and protections under the law, cannot legally be waterboarded, not even a McVeigh. So that answers that.

That doesn't answer that at all. As well as being forbidden by US law, torture of POWs and civilians is forbidden by the third and fourth Geneva Conventions. The US have ratified these conventions and they must therefore be followed by the US government. In plain English this means that the US are bound not just by their own laws, but also by international law when it comes to treatment of POWs. As is the rest of the world.

The Bush administration tried to classify the captured terrorists as "unlawful combatants", ie. not POWs and therefore not protected by the Geneva Conventions. Another example of renaming someone/something to justify it. Of course this was just plain bullshit, in lack of a better word. I quote the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, which sets a clear precedent:

"Every person in enemy hands must be either a prisoner of war and, as such, be covered by the Third Convention; or a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention. Furthermore, "There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law."

Therefore, qm, captured terrorists have the same legal protection as US citizens when it comes to torture.

I'd rather him be the face of Minnesota, instead of crazy bitch Bachmann and the clowns fighting over the senate.

The news people on CNN, FOX and all other shows are getting exponentially more physically attractive each year. Soon, they will all be super models and think just like she does.

So why stop there? Let's torture everybody who might conceivably harm someone.

I already explained the difference between who is fair game and who are citizens/soldiers with legal rights. RTFM.

Torture has gotten us zero pertinant information, and it has inflamed the Arab world against us.

Torture "doesn't work" (except when it does) but you don't want to simply kill the scum where we find them. Make up your minds, libs!

The Arab world has been "inflamed" for centuries. Nothing new there.

And since when did fascists like you give a shit what the families of victims thought?

You hide behind victims the same way you hide behind the troops and your bogus patriotism.

Who's hiding, banana breath? I'm telling it like it is, not like Professor Tenured Hippie who hides from the real world at University.

My patriotism is bogus because I won't swear allegiance to the Communist States of Amerika? You bet. Fk Obamarx and all his minions. Nothing but thieves and thugs.

Why are you libs wearing your keyboards out crying over the 'rights' of scum who would love to chop off your heads?

ya beat me to it RASCH!
the debate if torture is a political right or wrong,or if its its even justified
is IRRELEVANT.
let me say that again for those who got their intellect from a cracker jack box.
the debate on whether torture is righteous,or a political ideology is IRRELEVANT.
RASCH is correct.according to article 3 of the geneva convention,and CIA,NSA and fbi legal guidelines,waterboarding is considered TORTURE,therefore it is against the LAW.not just international law,but national.
dont like the law?then CHANGE it.
but bybee,addington and woo did not do that did they?
they created retro-active legislation that RETROACTIVELY gave immunity to those who were the architects of the iraq war.
if the bush administration was so righteous in the iraq war and its prosecution,why would they have senior white house legal counsel create laws to grant immunity..retroactively?
answer=because the prosecution of the "war on terror" was an illegal war,using illegal "interrogation techniques".
in the aftermath of world war 2,three japanese interrogators were executed.
their crime?...waterboarding.
which court prosecuted these japanese interrogators?....american.
there IS NO ARGUMENT....waterboarding is against the LAW..period.
so for those who feel they can turn this into a political diatribe are just being weak-minded,or even worse...tools for an establishment who left their ideologies a long time ago.
while bansheex may be corrct that in the past it was the democracts who were the chickenhawks,it is BESIDE THE POINT,and has no relevance to the current argument.
and QM's argument is just one big red herring,and avoids the real point in order to push his "i hate libs" polemic.
this IS NOT A POLITICAL TALKING POINT.this is about the honor of the USA and how we,as a nation,are all equal UNDER THE LAW.
jesse ventura put it perfectly,and i agree,i dont care if it was a repub,or a dem that knew about this,and either by action OR inaction allowed this perversion to go on.ALL of them should be held accountable.
this new development with the additional abu ghraib pictures NOT being revealed has me fuming.it smacks of political hubris.my guess is that some
prominent politicians will be exposed as having known about these abuses and let it slide for political expediency.i find this VERY distasteful.
no-one should be above the law.
and waterboarding is torture,it was developed for the sole purpose of producing a "false confession" and did nothing to gather or obtain pertinent information,but did a great job in making our country seem the hypocrite and made or soldiers far less safe.
and QM..please read up on the legalities please.the "national flag" defense was a construct by the bybee/addington crew to do exactly what you did here..
defend torture,and was corrected in 2006.that argument can no longer be used.
somebody else mentioned "citizen rights"..yeah..ok...
go check out MCA of 2006,patriot act 1& 2,victory act 1& 2.
all they have to do is deem you an "enemy combatant" and your whisked away to "secret rendition" club med.there was a post here a few weeks ago about a 16 yr old who was brought in under the patriot act,he lost all rights as a citizen.no habeas corpus,no rights of redress,the state does not have to produce evidence under the vague banner of "national security".
this whole things stinks to high heaven,reeking of political malfeasance and abuse.the worst thing is how it indirectly puts our soldiers in a much worse situation than before.and for what?...nothing,absolutely nothing.
i didnt serve my country to watch a bunch of gray haired chicken hawk pussies,who didnt have the balls to sign up when called, but now are all trash talking tough guys,who put MY kids in danger.
bunch of panty-waist,pussy fags.
im done...there is no argument.
against the law..period.
either change the law,or shut the fuck up.
better yet,put your money where your mouth is,and go sign up for the army.
lets see you trash talk then.
fucking pussies.
/rant OFF
thanks for tuning in to:enoch's cathartic rant.

If you torture you condone the practice around the world. It's as simple as that. That is the one and only reason we cannot justify these actions.

Furthermore, terrorism is an overblown threat. Drunk drivers killed 17,941 people in 2006 alone. If the threat justifies this behavior, should we install waterboarding facilities at bars?

>> ^NetRunner:
The only thing that rankled me about what he said was that as an Independent, he alone would want to prosecute everyone.
He's dead wrong about that. The progressives are more than happy to send everyone involved in this whole torture program to jail, no matter what letter is on their jersey.


He never said he was the only one. He just said AS an independent he'd prosecute them all, not because of it. Not that I doubt the progressives would prosecute a few dozen senators and secretaries of whatsit if they were progressive.(grammar comprehension, I lack)

the political ways of quantummushy, here in norway we call it pissing in your pants to stay warm.

I would be happy to have you as my president, Mr. Ventura.

Sure, Obama is better than Bush, no question. But the political differences between Obama and Bush are far smaller than the differences between either of them and the likes of Jesse Ventura or Ralph Nader. The Dems & GOP are in bed together on most major issues, just quibbling over details.

I have less in common politically with most elected representatives of the Dems & GOP, than i do with most of the third parties out there.

That said, i'm done chasing spending the bulk of my political time and money on candidates. It's an ineffective strategy, that should be secondary. I think the tactics of grassroots groups like DownsizeDC.org and even Mr. Sean Tevins of Kansas are much more effective in the long term.

The View needs to get Carrie Prejean with Hasslebeck. Soooo tired of the rest of the left wing phonies on the show.

>> ^TangledThorns:
The View needs to get Carrie Prejean with Hasslebeck. Soooo tired of the rest of the left wing phonies on the show.


Yes, because Carrie Prejean knows exactly what she is talking about.

If she hadn't been asked that question, she'd be working a strip club right now.



>> ^EMPIRE:
In that video, everyone sitting to the left of Jesse Ventura is a complete moron.


You can tell Ventura is also thinking "Everyone sitting to my left is fucking stupid!"

Guys, what was the other show he was recently on that was here on the Sift? If you watch it, he says the EXACT SAME THINGS. I'm not saying I disagree with the guy, but he's a fucking broken reacord. He keeps saying the same things over and over. Stop rehearsing your interviews, buddy. It'll make you seem more credible.

edit - here's one: http://www.videosift.com/video/TYT-Jesse-Ventura-Bitch-Slaps-Dick-Cheney

>> ^ForgedReality:
Guys, what was the other show he was recently on that was here on the Sift? If you watch it, he says the EXACT SAME THINGS. I'm not saying I disagree with the guy, but he's a fucking broken reacord. He keeps saying the same things over and over. Stop rehearsing your interviews, buddy. It'll make you seem more credible.
edit - here's one: http://www.videosift.com/video/TYT-Jesse-Ventura-Bitch-Slaps-Dick-Chen
ey


He was on CNN with Larry King live.

And even if he keeps saying the same things over and over.. He's speaking to different audiences. We see him on the sift because we happen to enjoy his views and agree with them, but I can almost guarantee you that the same people who watch the view, do NOT also watch Larry King Live. He's making the same points to different people.

>> ^BansheeX:
Oh, gimme a break Mr. progressive. What the hell is a progressive? Democrats are as bad as the neo-cons. They started Vietnam, in which we lost 50,000 young men in a freaking jungle for no reason but to line the pockets of the military industrial complex, and half the democrats voted for Iraq. Neither party has clean hands, you can only find individuals who voted their conscious and serve their country above their party. Obama can't do #2.


Okay, I'll give you a break. I didn't say word one about party, and in fact said I'm fully happy to imprison Democrats even though I'm normally pushing for them to get elected.

That said, you still spew this kind of crap all over.

As an oh-so-holy, clean-handed, never voted for a major party kind of person, do you want the progressive (liberal for you crotchety old coots) movement for or against prosecuting the people responsible for torture?

Think carefully about your answer, and decide whether you should be dumping vitriol on them for their position, especially if you're dreaming of driving a wedge into a major party some day.

That blond chick certainly absorbed all of the lessons of her high school debate class:

Talk as quickly as possible and first try to browbeat your opponent.

Immediately change the topic if they seem to have a good response. There's no sense in fighting a losing battle.

Practice your talking points ahead of time. Being thoughtful, honest or reflective will only slow you down.

And most of all, there is no right or wrong, only us or them. It's simply a competition, but that doesn't mean you can't hate your opponent as if they were your enemy.

>> ^quantumushroom:
So why stop there? Let's torture everybody who might conceivably harm someone.
I already explained the difference between who is fair game and who are citizens/soldiers with legal rights. RTFM.
Torture has gotten us zero pertinant information, and it has inflamed the Arab world against us.
Torture "doesn't work" (except when it does) but you don't want to simply kill the scum where we find them. Make up your minds, libs!
The Arab world has been "inflamed" for centuries. Nothing new there.
And since when did fascists like you give a shit what the families of victims thought?
You hide behind victims the same way you hide behind the troops and your bogus patriotism.
Who's hiding, banana breath? I'm telling it like it is, not like Professor Tenured Hippie who hides from the real world at University.
My patriotism is bogus because I won't swear allegiance to the Communist States of Amerika? You bet. Fk Obamarx and all his minions. Nothing but thieves and thugs.
Why are you libs wearing your keyboards out crying over the 'rights' of scum who would love to chop off your heads?


When we're both burning in hell you're buying the first round, next round's on me, then we we can buddy up with a couple terrorists and pin the tab on them. It'll be a riot!

>> ^quantumushroom:
How does Ventura--who really should know better--equate scum terrorists who are not soldiers and therefore have no rights or legal protections (except ones fabricated by the American Criminal Liars Union) with legitimate soldiers fighting under a nation's flag?
U.S. citizens, who have actual rights and protections under the law, cannot legally be waterboarded, not even a McVeigh. So that answers that.


I think maybe your problem is you don't see a difference between "right" and "legal". Waterboarding, being a form of torture, is wrong -- that has been the US's position for decades. When our guys were waterboarded in Vietnam or Japan, nobody was arguing that it was just enhanced interrogation. That wasn't because it was illegal; it's because it was wrong.


Would you be able to tell the families of victims and survivors of a terrorist attack that "due to maintaining higher moral ground" we didn't torture a detainee with possible information that might have prevented it? I couldn't.


There's an old quote from some guy named Tom that I suspect most people here have heard. It goes like this:

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

I did not fully understand this statement when I first learned it and I get the impression many others do not either. The obvious part is that you have to be willing to fight to keep your freedom against any would-be oppressors. The part people don't seem to understand is that it also means you may have to endure loss of safety. A government cannot simultaneously grant you right to privacy, for example, and watch everything you do to make sure you're not building bombs in your basement. If the former is important to you, then you have to accept the latter.

Freedoms are important to me, above all else in this country, so I will remain vigilant and endure this threat. I will not simply throw my morals out the window in fear. After all, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I saw we take every conservative and liberal, along with anyone in the middle that thinks waterboarding and 'enhanced interrogation techiques" are not TORTURE, and waterboard 'em for three hours.

Now, anyone who knows this stuff *IS* torture, understands this action is wrong on so many levels. So, we'll have a safety net in place. If these individuals 'tap out', they admit that water boarding is torture. We ask them while they are just laying on the board, sopping water. And when the answer is not "yes", we keep water boarding them.

While we are doing this, to former Bush cabinet members like Mr Cheney, we find out WHO signed off on this, WHO did this, and WHY they thought this wasn't insane.


I doubt any of these people that say water boarding or "enhanced interrogation techniques" *ISNT* torture.

BTW, we make sure Mr. Hannity gets it, but ignores his tap out. After all, FOX 'journalists' should experienced this as those enemy combatants did.

I LOVE the way this guy sounded like a WWE wrestler, he issued slap down after slap down "That's just dick cheney changing a word.....YA DUMB JABRONI", slam his mic down and storm out of the arena.

Edit: AFTER posting this i found out he was a wrestler? That made me laugh so hard!

>> ^Nithern:
I saw we take every conservative and liberal, along with anyone in the middle that thinks waterboarding and 'enhanced interrogation techiques" are not TORTURE, and waterboard 'em for three hours.


Just waterboard them until they admit it's torture. It won't take three hours. Hell, they probably wouldn't even get wet before crapping their pants and spilling every little secret like Chunk in The Goonies.

Its actually good to have a stupid person ("blonde" if you will).

Stupid questions, often get cut-through-the-bullshit enlightening answers

I was waiting for Ventura to say Boo-Ya Bitch! at the end of that.

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