*promote

Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Saturday, April 14th, 2012 4:29pm PDT - promote requested by eric3579.

this is simultaneously why i want kids and why i dont want kids. hilarious

*fail *kids

Adding video to channels (Fail, Kids) - requested by ant.

*nochannel
*cute

There is no chance in the world I'd show this to kids, and perhaps plant ideas in their devious little heads!

Oh, and the bowl ended up cleared... Win!

This video has been removed from all channels (Kids, Cute, Fail) due to invalid channel assignment - nochannel invoked by oritteropo. Please review the FAQ to learn about appropriate channel assignments.

This is channeless ? channel less ? how does that go ?

I see nothing, NOTHING !

The same child who was so uncooperative and melodramatic before her sleep was probably the sweetest, most well behaved child in the world after her sleep.

I'd like to say that my child would never act like this, but I'd be lying.

>> ^smooman:

this is simultaneously why i want kids and why i dont want kids. hilarious

*kids
*cute is in the eye of the beholder I guess.
@oritteropo .. if you want to assign channels on your own sift you have to click "modify video details".

Adding video to channels (Kids) - requested by burdturgler.

*Cute ? ?

Adding video to channels (Cute) - requested by BoneRemake.

/me pats hands together.

Although this should not be in the kids channel as the kids channel is for videos kids would want to watch like barney or Thomas the train videos, not videos that have kids in them. But lets not bust balls right now, the vibe is good.

I don't find this particularly cute either, so I guess it could go back to being in no channels.
The important thing is, now we all know how to actually invoke a channel.
/clap

true on both sides of the moat.

*nochannel

see if that actually works, there literally is no channel other than "Art" to put this in. I say.

**edit** - Cool.

This video has been removed from all channels (Kids, Cute) due to invalid channel assignment - nochannel invoked by BoneRemake. Please review the FAQ to learn about appropriate channel assignments.

Why the fuck did that guy buy such heavy bowls?

Better watch out Meryl Streep!

>> ^smooman:

this is simultaneously why i want kids and why i dont want kids. hilarious
You know you could always rent one for a few days...
Or get a dog.

There are ways to raise kids so they'll want to do household work. This is not that. This is encouraging that kid to consider evading tasks to be "winning", and she'll just get more sophisticated and probably carry this resistance to responsibilities into her adulthood, and find ways to avoid responsibilities long after her parents aren't around to tell her what to do.

My comment is not in any way autobiographical.

Good lord. Never having kids.

I don't see how you came to that conclusion. I thought the Dad did a pretty good job of letting the girl know that it was her responsibility to clear the plate, and that carrying on wasn't going to get her out of it. I would have done pretty much the same thing in pretty much the same way, except perhaps not quite so well.

Now if he'd given in and cleared the plate for her... well that leads to a bad place.

How would you have managed it differently?
>> ^messenger:

There are ways to raise kids so they'll want to do household work. This is not that. This is encouraging that kid to consider evading tasks to be "winning", and she'll just get more sophisticated and probably carry this resistance to responsibilities into her adulthood, and find ways to avoid responsibilities long after her parents aren't around to tell her what to do.
My comment is not in any way autobiographical.

I have a feeling we're going to disagree on this one, but you might be interested in hearing my take.

I agree that giving in and letting it go would have been a bad choice on his part. However, I don't think the father communicated anything useful to the daughter. I don't think she was capable of receiving the intended message in her condition. An adult would have understood it. Maybe after a nap she would have understood it, but that girl there was beyond learning at that point. This is not a teaching moment.

To me, this scene shows disrespect for the kid's feelings. For her own reasons, not the least of which is being overly-tired, she very strongly doesn't want to put the bowl in the sink. For all the effort she's making to avoid moving the bowl, the parent is making as much effort to make her move the bowl. Both sides are working harder now than it would take to move the bowl. It has ceased to be about the bowl, or about chores, and now it's a battle of wills. The kid is learning that daddy is more powerful than her and his seemingly random orders are more important than how she feels. She's 3 years old and exhausted, so that's all she's internalizing. She isn't learning anything about responsibility, or cleanliness, or aesthetics or feelings. She's not learning why she should put the bowl away instead of her dad. Her dad's avoiding the task just as much as she is. The only difference is he's smarter and more powerful.

This is a common stance of parents, but not a necessary one. The first part of my answer is I would not tell my kids to do any chores, but instead ask them to do things, just like I would ask an adult, giving them as much autonomy as possible. If they didn't do them, I would explain my feelings about why I wanted them done, explain how it made me feel to see those things not done and how it felt to do those things myself without their help. I would hear their side about it and compare it with my own. If they still refused, I would establish consequences that don't require their cooperation (like I choose not to serve any dessert, rather than grounding). If you're doubtful it could work, this is what my sister did with her two. The result? By age six they were arguing with the parents over who got to do the dishes. Contributing felt like a reward for them because they understood the consequences of their choice either way.

The second part of my answer is about this exact situation. Let's say I forgot about my position on not telling my kids to do things, and accidentally got into a stupid win-lose (or even lose-lose) battle of wills with my 3-year-old daughter. Once I realized I was in a situation I had wanted to avoid and it was my fault (you can't fault the 3-year-old), I would change the dialogue to resolve it in such a way that both of us felt good -- or as good as we could, considering. First, I would never pretend that I believed the lie that it's too heavy. This just encourages the behaviour. I would start off by acknowledging her feelings (upset, tired, angry, frustrated, ...) and eliciting confirmation. I would aim for some sort of compromise, like she goes for her nap now, and we agree to talk about the bowl after. The goal would be her understanding the point, not getting her to move the bowl.

When she left, I would put the bowl away, and after her nap, I'd explain like I said in the first part about my feelings around chipping in. If she's too young to understand the connection between my feelings and her doing chores, then she's too young to be expected to do meaningful chores.>> ^oritteropo:

I don't see how you came to that conclusion. I thought the Dad did a pretty good job of letting the girl know that it was her responsibility to clear the plate, and that carrying on wasn't going to get her out of it. I would have done pretty much the same thing in pretty much the same way, except perhaps not quite so well.
Now if he'd given in and cleared the plate for her... well that leads to a bad place.
How would you have managed it differently?

Thank you, I was interested in your take. You already know my parenting style is much closer to the guy in the video, and I doubt we're really going to agree, but in my opinion there is more than one right way to deal with children and it does depend a bit on the parent and the child.

I think it's important for children to understand that their parents are the ones in charge, and that although we will explain things when appropriate (even most of the time) sometimes they need to just do what we say and "because I said so" is sometimes a good enough reason.

We appear to agree on what I think is the more important point that children require clearly defined and consistently enforced boundaries, even if we are coming from slightly different angles.
>> ^messenger:

I have a feeling we're going to disagree on this one, but you might be interested in hearing my take.
[...]

I can often be the first to over-analyze things - but as my wife tells me, "I over think things." So I'll just say, "don't argue, just put it in the sink."


Patience and parenting go hand in hand.

I try this little trick all the time with my husband. Great way to get out of housework.

Maybe if you don't video your kid she won't act like a drama queen.

i own a pit/shepherd mix, who, at 6 years old is, believe it or not, a bigger baby than this girl =P

and im currently living in my sisters spare bedroom. she has two daughters. my nieces are all the kids i want right now. fun with playtime, then when they start acting up i just let "mom" take care of em =)

>> ^mxxcon:

>> ^smooman:
this is simultaneously why i want kids and why i dont want kids. hilarious
You know you could always rent one for a few days...
Or get a dog.

Awesome job ! Now clean the catbox!

This infuriated me. Good thing I'm not having any kids.

My son still tries to pull that old trick now and then. We just deny him anything fun till he does what he needs to.

In a nutshell, this is how they train Navy Seals.

>> ^messenger:

I have a feeling we're going to disagree on this one, but you might be interested in hearing my take.
I agree that giving in and letting it go would have been a bad choice on his part. However, I don't think the father communicated anything useful to the daughter. I don't think she was capable of receiving the intended message in her condition. An adult would have understood it. Maybe after a nap she would have understood it, but that girl there was beyond learning at that point. This is not a teaching moment.
To me, this scene shows disrespect for the kid's feelings. For her own reasons, not the least of which is being overly-tired, she very strongly doesn't want to put the bowl in the sink. For all the effort she's making to avoid moving the bowl, the parent is making as much effort to make her move the bowl. Both sides are working harder now than it would take to move the bowl. It has ceased to be about the bowl, or about chores, and now it's a battle of wills. The kid is learning that daddy is more powerful than her and his seemingly random orders are more important than how she feels. She's 3 years old and exhausted, so that's all she's internalizing. She isn't learning anything about responsibility, or cleanliness, or aesthetics or feelings. She's not learning why she should put the bowl away instead of her dad. Her dad's avoiding the task just as much as she is. The only difference is he's smarter and more powerful.
This is a common stance of parents, but not a necessary one. The first part of my answer is I would not tell my kids to do any chores, but instead ask them to do things, just like I would ask an adult, giving them as much autonomy as possible. If they didn't do them, I would explain my feelings about why I wanted them done, explain how it made me feel to see those things not done and how it felt to do those things myself without their help. I would hear their side about it and compare it with my own. If they still refused, I would establish consequences that don't require their cooperation (like I choose not to serve any dessert, rather than grounding). If you're doubtful it could work, this is what my sister did with her two. The result? By age six they were arguing with the parents over who got to do the dishes. Contributing felt like a reward for them because they understood the consequences of their choice either way.
The second part of my answer is about this exact situation. Let's say I forgot about my position on not telling my kids to do things, and accidentally got into a stupid win-lose (or even lose-lose) battle of wills with my 3-year-old daughter. Once I realized I was in a situation I had wanted to avoid and it was my fault (you can't fault the 3-year-old), I would change the dialogue to resolve it in such a way that both of us felt good -- or as good as we could, considering. First, I would never pretend that I believed the lie that it's too heavy. This just encourages the behaviour. I would start off by acknowledging her feelings (upset, tired, angry, frustrated, ...) and eliciting confirmation. I would aim for some sort of compromise, like she goes for her nap now, and we agree to talk about the bowl after. The goal would be her understanding the point, not getting her to move the bowl.
When she left, I would put the bowl away, and after her nap, I'd explain like I said in the first part about my feelings around chipping in. If she's too young to understand the connection between my feelings and her doing chores, then she's too young to be expected to do meaningful chores.


The method described that your sister uses is guilt tripping and extortion. Using emotional guilt as a lever and the threat of no dessert (carrot and stick) is hardly more enlightened then flat out requiring that the job be done. And every parent uses it at some point.

And as for 'you can't fault a 3 year old', are you fucking stoned? Talk about arrogance, 'oh, their precious little intellects aren't developed enough to understand what's going on'. Bullshit. 2-3 year olds learn things very very fast (I call it 'velociraptoring'), and they're a lot brighter than you give them credit for. Isn't that the point of your whole parenting by negotiation schtick?

The father handled this well.

My son has a similar shtick: "It's too dark!" Even in broad daylight, sometimes it's just too darn dark to go where we tell him.