deathcow says...

Recently in Alaska a man beat up a 7 yr old girl. He was quite sick with some infection. He did not beat up the girl to get health care. However, the cops took him to the hospital and explicitly said "We are going to arrest him when he gets out of the hospital." So that they did not have to pay his medical bills.

Psychologic says...

This is the kind of story that could make the guy rich from internet donations.

It's kinda funny that our tax money supports medical care for felons and illegal immigrants (ER visits), but not law-abiding tax payers.

bcglorf says...

>> ^luxury_pie:

Going to jail to survive - only in America (and maybe some third-world country)


Or, in another light.

America, one of the only places where the prisons are of such high quality and take such good care of the population, people are actually trying to break IN!

Most third-world country prisons are decidedly worse and more dangerous than living homeless in the streets, not the American style 3-meals a day with cable tv and recreational time and facilities.

Crunchy says...

Quote script doesn't seem to work...

Anyways, to quote luxury_pie "Going to jail to survive - only in America (and maybe some third-world country)"

We have that in scandinavia aswell, especially in winter times hobos tend to commit some petty crime like for instance smoke a cigarette in a shopping mall and without the possibility of paying the fine and as a repeat offender they might get a few months in jail

Porksandwich says...

Didn't hurt anyone, caused a little fuss. Did it to potentially save his life. Can't fault the guy.

You do any kind of hard manual labor in the US and aren't in a union, insurance is usually not provided unless it's a big company. You typically don't make enough to pay for insurance, in fact your job type used to affect what you paid on insurance and probably still does via categorizations. So if you're doing something repetitive or just hard physical labor for 15-20+ years......you probably won't make it to retirement age without being disabled or needing some kind of fairly major surgery that may or may not fix the problem and probably won't allow you to return to the type of work you had.

I still don't understand why they couldn't expand medicare since it already has contracts nationwide with hospitals and care providers. They could do it cheaper than any health insurance company and require people to pay in if they are working to be covered under it. There's already a shitload of people on government provided health care and everyone supports them...so why is it so sacrilege to let the system everyone ALREADY pays into pay more to get covered as well? It has to be cheaper than places like Anthem, they post too much in profits to be providing the best healthcare for the best price.

Porksandwich says...

>> ^ghark:

This is a scam, he wanted to go to jail to break out his brother.


You'd think he would have made enough money designing the jail to at least get that thing off his nose.

blankfist says...

Very sad. I've seen good people in my home state (NC is my home state) worry about receiving coverage. My brother sells insurance in that state. He even knows the system is fucked.

At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies. Today our insurance plans are meal plans (meaning visits to preventive care is covered, such as pediatricians, OBGYNs, etc.) instead of catastrophic care (meaning emergency visits, unexpected health emergencies and hospitalization).

Nowadays doctors and dentists have raised their prices to offset the constant denials of coverage from insurance companies. Out of necessity they've raised their prices knowing the ins. companies will usually deny coverage.

For a year now I've tried to have a "gum graft" cleared through my insurance. After going back and forth, finally it was cleared. But a year ago when I made the request it would've cost me just my copay of $10. A year later they've raised my premium, modified my treatment meal plan and raised the copay, and now I owe a copay of $20 plus $238 of the treatment. I don't mind paying that much because I really need this done, but it's obvious they waited for the changed so they could save a couple hundred bucks.

And the treatment would'nt cost so much if the dentists (and doctors!) didn't require insurance. And they've raised prices mainly to subsidize the staff needed to handle the insurance companies (and the time spent going back and forth with the insurance companies). When's the last time you've ever heard a doctor or nurse give you dollar amount for your visit? Not often, because all we care about is the copay, right?

conan says...

his plan won't work as he's only charged with minor theft and not bank robbery. so he'll be out pretty quick.

bcglorf says...

>> ^blankfist:

Very sad. I've seen good people in my home state (NC is my home state) worry about receiving coverage. My brother sells insurance in that state. He even knows the system is fucked.
At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies. Today our insurance plans are meal plans (meaning visits to preventive care is covered, such as pediatricians, OBGYNs, etc.) instead of catastrophic care (meaning emergency visits, unexpected health emergencies and hospitalization).
Nowadays doctors and dentists have raised their prices to offset the constant denials of coverage from insurance companies. Out of necessity they've raised their prices knowing the ins. companies will usually deny coverage.
For a year now I've tried to have a "gum graft" cleared through my insurance. After going back and forth, finally it was cleared. But a year ago when I made the request it would've cost me just my copay of $10. A year later they've raised my premium, modified my treatment meal plan and raised the copay, and now I owe a copay of $20 plus $238 of the treatment. I don't mind paying that much because I really need this done, but it's obvious they waited for the changed so they could save a couple hundred bucks.
And the treatment would'nt cost so much if the dentists (and doctors!) didn't require insurance. And they've raised prices mainly to subsidize the staff needed to handle the insurance companies (and the time spent going back and forth with the insurance companies). When's the last time you've ever heard a doctor or nurse give you dollar amount for your visit? Not often, because all we care about is the copay, right?


"At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies."

I am terrified to ask this Blankfist, but what is the alternative? Presumably like this guy you can just not bother with insurance and choose medical treatment yourself based on what you can afford, right? Isn't any other alternative the evil machinations of Statists like me?

I am after all Canadian, and we truly have given over our power to choose medical treatment to the government. Though, it's a mixed bag up here where private hospitals and medicine is illegal and vehemently decried as inherently evil, while at the same time dental, chiropractic and optical medical treatments are all 100% private for profit enterprises and good luck getting the government to spend a dime on you if you need treatment in those fields.

Boise_Lib says...

>> ^conan:

his plan won't work as he's only charged with minor theft and not bank robbery. so he'll be out pretty quick.


If at first you don't succeed...

Porksandwich says...

>> ^blankfist:

When's the last time you've ever heard a doctor or nurse give you dollar amount for your visit? Not often, because all we care about is the copay, right?


Well I think that's part of it. But I know why they don't give a dollar amount. It's because every person on the planet could have insurance but through different companies, and they all have different "agreed" payments for procedures. I get a kick out of getting a test that I was thinking "oh this is probably worth about 50 dollars worth of someone's time", and seeing that it's billed at about 120, but then insurance sets aside 60 of it, pays 20 and I end up paying 40. Sure they SAVED you 80 dollars on the test cost, but that test wouldn't cost 120 if they didn't negotiate like they do.

I worked for a billing agency for a few months a number of years ago, and I overhead one of the doctors talking to head of the billing department on a job site (I was doing IT work). The head guy told the doctor that they had to pick from 5-6 categories for what they agree to take for payment on procedures, they advised the doctor to take the highest payout. Doctor balked at the idea of charging so much for procedures that were more in line with the first or second column of like 5-6. Head guy tells the doctor that the negotiation only takes place every 5 years or so, so what it may cost now won't be what it costs in 3 years. So you have to take the higher rates unless you want to pay part of every persons procedure in 3 years. And also with this agreement, the doctor can't make patients any discounts unless they also offer those same discounts to the insurance companies. Told the doctor to offer people (uninsured or not choosing to use insurance) a discount if they paid same day, because insurance companies can't pay same day. This was a small and as far as I know unaffiliated practice in a mostly rural area....practice was attached in a seperated section of their house.

And it's pretty obvious how bullshit all of it is when you see it in practice....badmouthing it as someone whose trying to make a living at it probably means you'll be out of business due to pissing someone off who makes payments or losing out on a slew of customers.

Porksandwich says...

>> ^Boise_Lib:

>> ^conan:
his plan won't work as he's only charged with minor theft and not bank robbery. so he'll be out pretty quick.

If at first you don't succeed...


Yeah he could get a reputation as the Dollar Bill Bandit. Slowly increase his time in jail each time he robs a bank of a dollar while he sits on the chair waiting for the cops. Maybe he'll move on to hardcore bills because everyone knows dollar bills are just gateway bills to the harder stuff.

jwray says...

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^blankfist:
Very sad. I've seen good people in my home state (NC is my home state) worry about receiving coverage. My brother sells insurance in that state. He even knows the system is fucked.
At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies. Today our insurance plans are meal plans (meaning visits to preventive care is covered, such as pediatricians, OBGYNs, etc.) instead of catastrophic care (meaning emergency visits, unexpected health emergencies and hospitalization).
Nowadays doctors and dentists have raised their prices to offset the constant denials of coverage from insurance companies. Out of necessity they've raised their prices knowing the ins. companies will usually deny coverage.
For a year now I've tried to have a "gum graft" cleared through my insurance. After going back and forth, finally it was cleared. But a year ago when I made the request it would've cost me just my copay of $10. A year later they've raised my premium, modified my treatment meal plan and raised the copay, and now I owe a copay of $20 plus $238 of the treatment. I don't mind paying that much because I really need this done, but it's obvious they waited for the changed so they could save a couple hundred bucks.
And the treatment would'nt cost so much if the dentists (and doctors!) didn't require insurance. And they've raised prices mainly to subsidize the staff needed to handle the insurance companies (and the time spent going back and forth with the insurance companies). When's the last time you've ever heard a doctor or nurse give you dollar amount for your visit? Not often, because all we care about is the copay, right?

"At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies."
I am terrified to ask this Blankfist, but what is the alternative? Presumably like this guy you can just not bother with insurance and choose medical treatment yourself based on what you can afford, right? Isn't any other alternative the evil machinations of Statists like me?
I am after all Canadian, and we truly have given over our power to choose medical treatment to the government. Though, it's a mixed bag up here where private hospitals and medicine is illegal and vehemently decried as inherently evil, while at the same time dental, chiropractic and optical medical treatments are all 100% private for profit enterprises and good luck getting the government to spend a dime on you if you need treatment in those fields.


Chiropractic is not a real medical field in the same way that homeopathy and voodoo aren't. If you have back problems, go to a real GP doctor and they can refer you to whatever kind of specialist you need (which is NOT a chiropractor).

ghark says...

>> ^jwray:


Chiropractic is not a real medical field in the same way that homeopathy and voodoo aren't. If you have back problems, go to a real GP doctor and they can refer you to whatever kind of specialist you need (which is NOT a chiropractor).


In Australia they allowed the chiropractic profession to join the consortium of medical health professionals governed by our health body (AHPRA)

bcglorf says...

>> ^jwray:

>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^blankfist:
Very sad. I've seen good people in my home state (NC is my home state) worry about receiving coverage. My brother sells insurance in that state. He even knows the system is fucked.
At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies. Today our insurance plans are meal plans (meaning visits to preventive care is covered, such as pediatricians, OBGYNs, etc.) instead of catastrophic care (meaning emergency visits, unexpected health emergencies and hospitalization).
Nowadays doctors and dentists have raised their prices to offset the constant denials of coverage from insurance companies. Out of necessity they've raised their prices knowing the ins. companies will usually deny coverage.
For a year now I've tried to have a "gum graft" cleared through my insurance. After going back and forth, finally it was cleared. But a year ago when I made the request it would've cost me just my copay of $10. A year later they've raised my premium, modified my treatment meal plan and raised the copay, and now I owe a copay of $20 plus $238 of the treatment. I don't mind paying that much because I really need this done, but it's obvious they waited for the changed so they could save a couple hundred bucks.
And the treatment would'nt cost so much if the dentists (and doctors!) didn't require insurance. And they've raised prices mainly to subsidize the staff needed to handle the insurance companies (and the time spent going back and forth with the insurance companies). When's the last time you've ever heard a doctor or nurse give you dollar amount for your visit? Not often, because all we care about is the copay, right?

"At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies."
I am terrified to ask this Blankfist, but what is the alternative? Presumably like this guy you can just not bother with insurance and choose medical treatment yourself based on what you can afford, right? Isn't any other alternative the evil machinations of Statists like me?
I am after all Canadian, and we truly have given over our power to choose medical treatment to the government. Though, it's a mixed bag up here where private hospitals and medicine is illegal and vehemently decried as inherently evil, while at the same time dental, chiropractic and optical medical treatments are all 100% private for profit enterprises and good luck getting the government to spend a dime on you if you need treatment in those fields.

Chiropractic is not a real medical field in the same way that homeopathy and voodoo aren't. If you have back problems, go to a real GP doctor and they can refer you to whatever kind of specialist you need (which is NOT a chiropractor).


Up here any physical therapy generally gets referred to or lumped in under chiropractors, and you've got a big fight on your hands to get the government to count it as a covered universal health care treatment. If you need any physical therapy from a major join injury, good luck to you. Despite the government refusal to allow the existence of any for profit hospitals, those for profit hospitals frequently don't provide the recovery therapy for many things that people end up doing without, or paying out of pocket for.

I guess my overall point is what is the alternative to the insurance companies? It basically amounts to some form of government intervention to either regulate, replace or ban them. None of which I can imagine being alternatives that Blankfist is willing to tolerate, let alone advocate for.

quantumushroom says...

No need to get arrested, Lionel Luthor! Just dye your hair black, throw away all your forms of ID and recite some Spanish words and broken English phrases in the nearest Emergency Room.

bcglorf says...

>> ^quantumushroom:

No need to get arrested, Lionel Luthor! Just dye your hair black, throw away all your forms of ID and recite some Spanish words and broken English phrases in the nearest Emergency Room.


Yeah.

And you might win twice with a free trip to sunny Mexico!!!

quantumushroom says...

Not with the mexicrats in power! Olé!

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^quantumushroom:
No need to get arrested, Lionel Luthor! Just dye your hair black, throw away all your forms of ID and recite some Spanish words and broken English phrases in the nearest Emergency Room.

Yeah.
And you might win twice with a free trip to sunny Mexico!!!

Skeeve says...

I can't be certain what you mean by "up here" but in the Canada I live in, physical therapy is not lumped under chiropractics and is covered by healthcare.

Physiotherapy is covered by our healthcare system because it is an accepted and proven medical treatment. Chiropractic 'medicine' is not, and therefore should not be covered, just as fairy dust and tiger penis potions are not covered.
>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^jwray:
>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^blankfist:
Very sad. I've seen good people in my home state (NC is my home state) worry about receiving coverage. My brother sells insurance in that state. He even knows the system is fucked.
At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies. Today our insurance plans are meal plans (meaning visits to preventive care is covered, such as pediatricians, OBGYNs, etc.) instead of catastrophic care (meaning emergency visits, unexpected health emergencies and hospitalization).
Nowadays doctors and dentists have raised their prices to offset the constant denials of coverage from insurance companies. Out of necessity they've raised their prices knowing the ins. companies will usually deny coverage.
For a year now I've tried to have a "gum graft" cleared through my insurance. After going back and forth, finally it was cleared. But a year ago when I made the request it would've cost me just my copay of $10. A year later they've raised my premium, modified my treatment meal plan and raised the copay, and now I owe a copay of $20 plus $238 of the treatment. I don't mind paying that much because I really need this done, but it's obvious they waited for the changed so they could save a couple hundred bucks.
And the treatment would'nt cost so much if the dentists (and doctors!) didn't require insurance. And they've raised prices mainly to subsidize the staff needed to handle the insurance companies (and the time spent going back and forth with the insurance companies). When's the last time you've ever heard a doctor or nurse give you dollar amount for your visit? Not often, because all we care about is the copay, right?

"At some point we gave over our power to choose medical treatment to the insurance companies."
I am terrified to ask this Blankfist, but what is the alternative? Presumably like this guy you can just not bother with insurance and choose medical treatment yourself based on what you can afford, right? Isn't any other alternative the evil machinations of Statists like me?
I am after all Canadian, and we truly have given over our power to choose medical treatment to the government. Though, it's a mixed bag up here where private hospitals and medicine is illegal and vehemently decried as inherently evil, while at the same time dental, chiropractic and optical medical treatments are all 100% private for profit enterprises and good luck getting the government to spend a dime on you if you need treatment in those fields.

Chiropractic is not a real medical field in the same way that homeopathy and voodoo aren't. If you have back problems, go to a real GP doctor and they can refer you to whatever kind of specialist you need (which is NOT a chiropractor).

Up here any physical therapy generally gets referred to or lumped in under chiropractors, and you've got a big fight on your hands to get the government to count it as a covered universal health care treatment. If you need any physical therapy from a major join injury, good luck to you. Despite the government refusal to allow the existence of any for profit hospitals, those for profit hospitals frequently don't provide the recovery therapy for many things that people end up doing without, or paying out of pocket for.
I guess my overall point is what is the alternative to the insurance companies? It basically amounts to some form of government intervention to either regulate, replace or ban them. None of which I can imagine being alternatives that Blankfist is willing to tolerate, let alone advocate for.

criticalthud says...

chiropractic is manual therapy. dependent on the practitioner, it can help. like all professions, there is good and bad. i'm not the biggest fan, but i'm not stupid either.
that being said, there is very little manual therapy that can help two herniated discs. it's a very tricky balancing act, and at advanced age, there is only so much space the tissue will allow.

one of the principal problems with chiro's is that they've taken the md route to try to provide instant gratification for problems that require quite a bit of time and work.

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