The USA needs a reboot.

Why are these two smirking and proud?

Liberals run the show in US government schools, and conservative politicians are complicit, though without them the socialists would have already gone further.

Read all about it in this free-to-download e-book

The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America

>> ^quantumushroom:

Why are these two smirking and proud?
Liberals run the show in US government schools, and conservative politicians are complicit, though without them the socialists would have already gone further.
Read all about it in this free-to-download e-book
The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America

That's why school boards have tried to stop teaching evolution--because it's an evil liberal plot.

Link was wrong:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

>> ^RedSky:

Link was wrong:
http://www.theatlantic.c
om/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/


YouTube truncates long url's.
Fixed now.
Thanks.

This has much less to do with education systems and much more do to with how one teaches. I support this type of education for many youth. To make this about politics and not educational practices is a great disservice to what they have accomplished. This mode of discovery based teaching could be executed in a system of public and private schools, that isn't the issue at all. I throw in my support of discovery based teaching as a really great way let kids inspire themselves to learn. Imma vote for this even though I think Cenk is missing the point (this is why I hate politics, you can't see the trees for the forest at times)

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

This has much less to do with education systems and much more do to with how one teaches. I support this type of education for many youth. To make this about politics and not educational practices is a great disservice to what they have accomplished. This mode of discovery based teaching could be executed in a system of public and private schools, that isn't the issue at all. I throw in my support of discovery based teaching as a really great way let kids inspire themselves to learn. Imma vote for this even though I think Cenk is missing the point (this is why I hate politics, you can't see the trees for the forest at times)


Thanks for the upvote, but I strongly disagree.

How one teaches is directly controlled by the education system--which is directly controlled by politics (e.g. No Child Left Behind). The part of the plan which makes all schools equal is crucial to the success of the system. Instead of a few really great schools in the rich neighborhoods--and really shitty schools in all the poor neighborhoods--you get very good schooling for all the children. That--along with the amount of eduction needed to teach and a living wage for teachers--is completely controlled by politics.

If you focus too closely on one tree you'll miss the entire forest.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Why are these two smirking and proud?
Liberals run the show in US government schools, and conservative politicians are complicit, though without them the socialists would have already gone further.
Read all about it in this free-to-download e-book
The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America


Made it to paragraph three:

"If a child can read, write and compute at a reasonably proficient level, he will be able to do just about anything he wishes, enabling him to control his destiny to the extent that God allows (remain free)."

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

This has much less to do with education systems and much more do to with how one teaches. I support this type of education for many youth. To make this about politics and not educational practices is a great disservice to what they have accomplished. This mode of discovery based teaching could be executed in a system of public and private schools, that isn't the issue at all. I throw in my support of discovery based teaching as a really great way let kids inspire themselves to learn. Imma vote for this even though I think Cenk is missing the point (this is why I hate politics, you can't see the trees for the forest at times)


I hear what you're saying, but politics and education are too closely linked to act like it's just about private and public schools. It's about not understanding the value of education in the first place, and therefore demanding immediate quantifiable results to prove it's value. As if the world we live in isn't proof enough.

@Boise_Lib I think it is better to say "How one teaches is directly controlled by the education system" is how some systems work, but not how teaching in general has to be. You could have a system where teachers are free to experiment with different teaching methods, ( as some of the smaller counties already do here in Texas) for example. Or, conversely, if it became the cultural norm among the major body of educators that discovery based teaching was the best mode of teaching, you would see it in the private and public schools. I still say that this is more about the role and mode of educators than of any one system, but I will leave it at that.

I agree @Ryjkyj, I think we are saying the same thing. I am not arguing against education as the highest priority for kids, I think that is every parents number one concern. I think it is better to stress the role of teachers and teaching methods as the primary discussion topic on education and less the system around it. Start with kids and teachers, get those right, and the rest of the shit around them will fall into place. Different country will most likely have a different container for teachers and students that is consistent with their laws and cultural values, but as long as that center piece is strong, I would wager they would both be very successful. Teachers and students, teachers and students, teachers and students; low hanging fruit, talk about this stuff first!

As a Finnish citizen and being in one the first to gain from the new system, i can say without a doubt that the main point here is not the way we teach: it's about equality!! Every kid has equal opportunity to educate them self for FREE in a schooling system where every school has the same resources and same level of teachers. No matter what color you are, no matter if your parents are rich or poor, you get the same chance in life.

For me, it's been always granted: everyone gets educated, in fact, here there is no chance of not getting educated. Everybody have to get 9 years of basic education, it's in the law. As a parent, you have to extreme lenghts to not get your kid educated. Our "No kids left behind" really means what it says. Literacy is close to 100%, everyone knows how to do basic math, know about the history, geography, all the basic knowledge we humans need to survive.

As for the cost of this system, well, it's cheaper than what US have. By a large margin too. Even when our teachers are considered to be in the upper middle class, one meal per day for free for kids in school, no tuitions until University, all the reading material is free for the first 9 years, you get pens and pencils, rulers and paper, all for free... As for University tuitions, they are not in the range of tens of thousands, it's in the range of hundreds. So by the time a person has got 16 years of education, his student loans are about 10 000€, living and eating here is not free but nobodys forced to do two jobs to pay up for tuitions or parents getting a mortgage to give their younglings a fair chance.

Did i say it's cheaper than what US have? How about treating your citizens truly equal and giving everyone the chance of that American Dream?

Oh yeah, i have to add, every school is public.. There no private schools, none. Ther are a handful indpendent school, for ex Steiner schools but even they are publicly funded and no one is allowed to charge tuitions... When a school gets no direct benefits for getting kids better grades, they have to concentrate on something completely different... For me, requiring money to teach the next generation is just sick... Maybe US don't want to give the poors a chance.

This should be at #1.

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by dystopianfuturetoday.

Double-Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Sunday, March 18th, 2012 10:32pm PDT - doublepromote requested by dystopianfuturetoday.

At the risk of stating the obvious, all policy is political. Educational policy is no exception. Finland's choice to do away with private schools and competition was a political decision and there is nothing wrong with that, especially considering that it ended up being a wildly successful political decision. Our own US educational policy, which seems to be guided by competative free market politics is failing miserably. Goodness forbid we try something that works for a change. >> ^GeeSussFreeK:

This has much less to do with education systems and much more do to with how one teaches. I support this type of education for many youth. To make this about politics and not educational practices is a great disservice to what they have accomplished. This mode of discovery based teaching could be executed in a system of public and private schools, that isn't the issue at all. I throw in my support of discovery based teaching as a really great way let kids inspire themselves to learn. Imma vote for this even though I think Cenk is missing the point (this is why I hate politics, you can't see the trees for the forest at times)

Also Finland has the best racing drivers. Dunno why.

LoL Cenk is funny as hell in this one LOL LOL

The educational system in this country is in dire need of revision. Corruption and antebellum notions from an industrial era has turned public school into nothing short of a clusterfuck.

This is a question of philosophy. The inheritees on the right are TERRIFIED of having their kids up against a huge load of educated peers. The entire notion of elite private schools is so you KNOW who will be running your country in 50 years (and it's someone you know/are related to/owes you something).

In Britain 90% of judges come from 2 schools. The current government (PM, Chancellor, Mayor of London, heads of banks) were in a club together at the age of 20 for obscenely rich 5th+ generation inheritees, where they would have a luxury dinner then smash the restaurant up and drop a few thousand for the peasants to clean up after them.

While a state is in the grip of true evil like that, all you can hope for is screaming obfuscation from right wing mouthpieces like the Fox mercenaries, half the Senate and our very own QM, and nothing *NOTHING* will change.


>> ^Trancecoach:

The educational system in this country is in dire need of revision. Corruption and antebellum notions from an industrial era has turned public school into nothing short of a clusterfuck.

*Education

Adding video to channels (Education) - requested by Sagemind.

One of the worst things that could have happened to our education system is standardized testing. Standardized testing has had horrible effects. Schools are under so much pressure to teach to the test, and are forgetting about a well rounded education. Creativity and Arts are out the window. Funding is based on test results. Its ridiculous.

Does Finland schooling system provide anything but education and the facilities and meals related to keeping a large group of people for hours on end?

Do they do tutoring?

How do they handle discipline?

Do they offer sports teams and fields, etc as part of the school budget?

Uniforms?

Field trips?

Music/band?

Im hoping to hear from @CreamK on this.

Like I've always felt in the US that the sports programs and all the cost associated with them plus the competition they spawn within the student body and against other schools is not beneficial. Basically you end up with a small group of players who get the school to bend over backwards to make things possible for them and everyone else loses out on it, in fact they often have to pay for tickets to even see the events their parents tax dollars make possible.

>> ^Porksandwich:


Like I've always felt in the US that the sports programs and all the cost associated with them plus the competition they spawn within the student body and against other schools is not beneficial. Basically you end up with a small group of players who get the school to bend over backwards to make things possible for them and everyone else loses out on it, in fact they often have to pay for tickets to even see the events their parents tax dollars make possible.


I agree.
We've made our school system (including college) a farm team for the NBA, NFL.

>> ^Porksandwich:

Does Finland schooling system provide anything but education and the facilities and meals related to keeping a large group of people for hours on end?
Do they do tutoring?
How do they handle discipline?
Do they offer sports teams and fields, etc as part of the school budget?
Uniforms?
Field trips?
Music/band?
Im hoping to hear from @CreamK on this.
Like I've always felt in the US that the sports programs and all the cost associated with them plus the competition they spawn within the student body and against other schools is not beneficial. Basically you end up with a small group of players who get the school to bend over backwards to make things possible for them and everyone else loses out on it, in fact they often have to pay for tickets to even see the events their parents tax dollars make possible.


There's tutoring for students that are falling behind, it's personal one-on-one and there's a multiple programs to help students who have problems, like specail ed or for troubled teens. I actually went on one these troubled youth programs. I never had any learning problems in school, in fact i was always so much ahead in classes that i got bored and started to get in to problems and skipping A LOT.. But when they finally managed to get me in to this special class, i've never enjoyed school that much.. I did two years of math in half a year and got free choice of what to do instead of math.. I either got a free hour or i picked up another subject like literacy and the best part of it was that i choosed what to do..

Discipline is there, you got many levels of it. Mostly it's handled in conjunction with parents. Detention, personal tutoring or changing to a smaller group, workshops where you can fix bikes and learn sciences with more hands on approaches etc. Mostly it's not a punishment as such but personalized programs to tailored to fit for the needs. Expulsions are very rare, in my school years i heard of two incidences and both were changed to smaller group where they both stopped skipping school in two weeks time. Those smaller groups consists of one teacher per 5 students or even less..

No sport teams are provided by schools, they are handled by sport teams junior programs. There is of course 1-2 hour classes per week for sports but it's more to do with learning to enjoy excercise than competing.

No uniforms or mandatory dressing codes. There is the basic decency expected when it comes to dressing and one peculiar code is that you are not allowed to wear a hat in class... Those baseball caps can hide your eyes... I know, it's a bit strange..

Field trips: yes, there are both provided by the school and then longer ones where the students do bake sales etc to gather money and those are voluntary.

Music is a subject and schools can provide the means to do them more in your own free time. The bands are not a part of schools but usually every city has one or to schools that concentrate more for those programs. It means a few extra hours but provide a good base for secondary musical education institutes where you can enroll at young age. Those institutions are publicly funded too and work in conjuction with all levels schools and they continue seamlessly to provide education for music teachers and professionals up to master degrees. You can go to those schools when you're grown up too and they have a tuitions, in the range of 100-200€ per class. So once again, money is not a hurdle for education.

It's been a years when i was in basic school, i graduated in 1989 and went to secondary school in 1991. That was about the time when the education reform was moving to that state too so i had to mixed field of teachers. Some were not up to job and some were just wonderful personalities. Now adays it's up to standards too and in fact, i'm enrolling in one next fall to finish up my graduation..

The downside of Finnish system is that you can not even get a job as a cleaner without finishing some sort of courses for it.. So even for basic shitty jobs you need a basic education in that field... But since those are basically free of charge (some require a 100-200€ fee, not a problem...) everyone has a chance. Also when you get a better job the companies often provide the follow-up studies that fit to that job description. The cost of those are divided by the goverment and the companies.

CreamK, I want to further my higher education, could you help me immigrate to Finland?

@CreamK

I'd assume the hat restriction is to prevent sleeping and cheating....since you could write the stuff inside the hat.

And most of that stuff sounds like "Duh!" kind of solution to the needs, like it's so obvious that no one thinks it'd work.

In the US a "common" job like janitorial/cleaning often requires certifications or proof of previous work....so a 100-200 dollar training course isn't so bad considering how asinine we are with job requirements here. What's so deficient about our job situation in the states is that a lot of jobs (like wasterwater treatment, or IT certifications) require you to work in the job before you can get the certifications to do the job, but they have requirements of you needing certifications to get the job in the first place. It's like a circle that you need to know someone on the inside of it to have them reach out and pull you in so you can get a small job in the field to get allowance/permission to get the certs. We like to have things arranged this way, so we can keep people out.....without "discriminating".

Ya I totally agree here I'm from Texas and sports get all the attention whatever money is left over goes to standardized testing which is a crock in and of itself. And people wonder why un-employment is so high in America.

It's because public schools teach absolutely nothing of value to kids whatsoever!

>> ^Boise_Lib:

>> ^Porksandwich:

Like I've always felt in the US that the sports programs and all the cost associated with them plus the competition they spawn within the student body and against other schools is not beneficial. Basically you end up with a small group of players who get the school to bend over backwards to make things possible for them and everyone else loses out on it, in fact they often have to pay for tickets to even see the events their parents tax dollars make possible.

I agree.
We've made our school system (including college) a farm team for the NBA, NFL.

>> ^Deano:

Also Finland has the best racing drivers. Dunno why.


No endless straight roads, a lot of distance between places, lots of unpaved roads if you want to get a feel for rallying, pretty harsh requirements for a driving license, and a culture that's enthusiastic about racing.

Frankly what astonishes me is that for a population of under 6 million, Finns have won a medal or some sort of championship in just about everything at some point, and without relying on cultural diversity or immigrants (say what you will, in many sports like running there are huge racial differences). Everything on skis/snowboards, just about everything with an engine, most track and field events (though interestingly not sprint events, nothing below 400m at least), boats (F1 boats, sailing, rowing), shooting, many team sports (though we royally suck at soccer, still many individual Finns have ranked among the top players of the world, Jari Litmanen being a prime example), boxing, wrestling and other fight sports, weight lifting, the list goes on.

Must be something in the water of the so called "million lakes".

>> ^Auger8:

Ya I totally agree here I'm from Texas and sports get all the attention whatever money is left over goes to standardized testing which is a crock in and of itself. And people wonder why un-employment is so high in America.
It's because public schools teach absolutely nothing of value to kids whatsoever!
>> ^Boise_Lib:
>> ^Porksandwich:

Like I've always felt in the US that the sports programs and all the cost associated with them plus the competition they spawn within the student body and against other schools is not beneficial. Basically you end up with a small group of players who get the school to bend over backwards to make things possible for them and everyone else loses out on it, in fact they often have to pay for tickets to even see the events their parents tax dollars make possible.

I agree.
We've made our school system (including college) a farm team for the NBA, NFL.



But I'd argue, it's the system that those in power want and corporations want. Because it allows them the excuse to ship high school level jobs out to other countries. You see it all the time "We can't find any qualified candidates!" and then they need H1B visa restrictions lifted so they can bring people in or the job goes to another country after they milk the taxpayers for "tax breaks" on a building promising some jobs and conveniently forget to deliver on the jobs.

It's a systematic breakdown of all counters and checks to their ability to solely profit since no one can compete against them if they make consumers as dumb as possible in general, ship the jobs overseas, and bring all the products back at reduced prices until they kill any possible competition ....then jack the prices up. And now there's been a huge lull in jobs in manufacturing, etc...so the schools aren't preparing people for those jobs or training schools have went under and the general population education level has dropped to prevent it from easily being fixed.

And.......since they control lots of money (and therefore power), they can now keep it that way because they are "too big" to be told no. And now they are trying to privatize stuff to get even more cash out of people, and then they completely control the whole process and you will be just as educated as they'll let you be.

>> ^jubuttib:

>> ^Deano:
Also Finland has the best racing drivers. Dunno why.

No endless straight roads, a lot of distance between places, lots of unpaved roads if you want to get a feel for rallying, pretty harsh requirements for a driving license, and a culture that's enthusiastic about racing.
Frankly what astonishes me is that for a population of under 6 million, Finns have won a medal or some sort of championship in just about everything at some point, and without relying on cultural diversity or immigrants (say what you will, in many sports like running there are huge racial differences). Everything on skis/snowboards, just about everything with an engine, most track and field events (though interestingly not sprint events, nothing below 400m at least), boats (F1 boats, sailing, rowing), shooting, many team sports (though we royally suck at soccer, still many individual Finns have ranked among the top players of the world, Jari Litmanen being a prime example), boxing, wrestling and other fight sports, weight lifting, the list goes on.
Must be something in the water of the so called "million lakes".


Damn vikings.

A Finn here too. \o/
There's a few tiny nitpicks in the video;
-There's no standardized testing at all.
Only test one could call standard would be the entry exams to universities, and other higher tier schools.
It's one exam (per field of study) you do and put a list of schools you want to get into, in order of preference.

Which brings me to an important omission;
-All universities and vocational schools and others are free.
It's kind of implied by 'public', but just to make it clear.
Pass the entry tests and you're good. (lower level graduation required)
This brings a lot of foreign students in too.
There's also a set amount of financial support in exchange for course credits, well enough for several degrees.
It's always mindblowing to think that families save up for tuition.

>> ^shole:

A Finn here too. \o/
There's a few tiny nitpicks in the video;
-There's no standardized testing at all.
Only test one could call standard would be the entry exams to universities, and other higher tier schools.
It's one exam (per field of study) you do and put a list of schools you want to get into, in order of preference.
Which brings me to an important omission;
-All universities and vocational schools and others are free.
It's kind of implied by 'public', but just to make it clear.
Pass the entry tests and you're good. (lower level graduation required)
This brings a lot of foreign students in too.
There's also a set amount of financial support in exchange for course credits, well enough for several degrees.
It's always mindblowing to think that families save up for tuition.


The matriculation examination at the end of gymnasium (i.e. the high school equivalent we have) is definitely a standardized test, since it's the same for every school and graded on a national level. Just because you can pick and choose the subjects you want to do doesn't change that fact.

i wish we can try the finnish system.
pick a state, or a city, and try it for 10-15 years.
everyone says out current system is terrible and not working.
how much worse could it be than our current one?

it will cost a bit more than our current system, but probably not that much more...

>> ^Auger8:

Ya I totally agree here I'm from Texas and sports get all the attention whatever money is left over goes to standardized testing which is a crock in and of itself. And people wonder why un-employment is so high in America.
It's because public schools teach absolutely nothing of value to kids whatsoever!
>> ^Boise_Lib:
>> ^Porksandwich:

Like I've always felt in the US that the sports programs and all the cost associated with them plus the competition they spawn within the student body and against other schools is not beneficial. Basically you end up with a small group of players who get the school to bend over backwards to make things possible for them and everyone else loses out on it, in fact they often have to pay for tickets to even see the events their parents tax dollars make possible.

I agree.
We've made our school system (including college) a farm team for the NBA, NFL.



If you can dodge a ball, you can fix global warming?

Srsly, I don't see how any American (or indeed anyone else on the bloody planet) can look at a system like this and not want to use it, unless they have an agenda where keeping people poor and stupid and without opportunity is the goal... \= |

Glad to see that Finland ain't just all about Death Metal then

*Doublepromote

Double-Promoting this video back to the front page; last published Monday, March 19th, 2012 8:24pm PDT - doublepromote requested by Barseps.

>> ^tymebendit:

i wish we can try the finnish system.
pick a state, or a city, and try it for 10-15 years.
everyone says out current system is terrible and not working.
how much worse could it be than our current one?
it will cost a bit more than our current system, but probably not that much more...


Actually, Finnish system is cheaper than US and by a large margin... Schools that don't have to make profit are much more cost efficient..

Think you hit the nail on the head there man. They want consumers here in America not innovators. Innovators are dangerous they might change the system for the greater good.

>> ^Asmo:

>> ^Auger8:
Ya I totally agree here I'm from Texas and sports get all the attention whatever money is left over goes to standardized testing which is a crock in and of itself. And people wonder why un-employment is so high in America.
It's because public schools teach absolutely nothing of value to kids whatsoever!
>> ^Boise_Lib:
>> ^Porksandwich:

Like I've always felt in the US that the sports programs and all the cost associated with them plus the competition they spawn within the student body and against other schools is not beneficial. Basically you end up with a small group of players who get the school to bend over backwards to make things possible for them and everyone else loses out on it, in fact they often have to pay for tickets to even see the events their parents tax dollars make possible.

I agree.
We've made our school system (including college) a farm team for the NBA, NFL.


If you can dodge a ball, you can fix global warming?
Srsly, I don't see how any American (or indeed anyone else on the bloody planet) can look at a system like this and not want to use it, unless they have an agenda where keeping people poor and stupid and without opportunity is the goal... \= |

I've studied the American education system and I am a product of it — not to mention my mother is an elementary school teacher. For all these things, you'll have reason to disregard my postulation. The problem isn't republican/democrat politics. The problem is politics altogether.

Parents want what's best for their children...hell even I want the best education for the children, and I'm not even a parent. However, because education is so important to us, we're not willing to gamble on a new system. This is where the politics come in...it's easy to sell the idea of more testing to "keep track" of our education goals. This, in-and-of-itself, is not illogical thinking. Collecting data points as often and accurately as possible is the best way to perform many kinds of experiments and getting the results. There's one problem with our current model, though: we're not getting results.

In my opinion, what the Khan Academy is trying to get going seems like our best bet if we want to keep our testing model and still modify our system for success.>> ^quantumushroom:

Why are these two smirking and proud?
Liberals run the show in US government schools, and conservative politicians are complicit, though without them the socialists would have already gone further.
Read all about it in this free-to-download e-book
The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America

Thanks for the insight in your replies.

It's kinda nitpicky, but in all the stuff I've read about the Finnish system (including the article in The Atlantic), the director of public schools describes the system as equity, not equality. There is the big difference between them and the US system. The US system is totally based on equality, i.e. No Child Left Behind. It's a huge cultural difference to support equity, not equality.
>> ^CreamK:

As a Finnish citizen and being in one the first to gain from the new system, i can say without a doubt that the main point here is not the way we teach: it's about equality!! Every kid has equal opportunity to educate them self for FREE in a schooling system where every school has the same resources and same level of teachers. No matter what color you are, no matter if your parents are rich or poor, you get the same chance in life.
For me, it's been always granted: everyone gets educated, in fact, here there is no chance of not getting educated. Everybody have to get 9 years of basic education, it's in the law. As a parent, you have to extreme lenghts to not get your kid educated. Our "No kids left behind" really means what it says. Literacy is close to 100%, everyone knows how to do basic math, know about the history, geography, all the basic knowledge we humans need to survive.
As for the cost of this system, well, it's cheaper than what US have. By a large margin too. Even when our teachers are considered to be in the upper middle class, one meal per day for free for kids in school, no tuitions until University, all the reading material is free for the first 9 years, you get pens and pencils, rulers and paper, all for free... As for University tuitions, they are not in the range of tens of thousands, it's in the range of hundreds. So by the time a person has got 16 years of education, his student loans are about 10 000€, living and eating here is not free but nobodys forced to do two jobs to pay up for tuitions or parents getting a mortgage to give their younglings a fair chance.
Did i say it's cheaper than what US have? How about treating your citizens truly equal and giving everyone the chance of that American Dream?

How would it be cheaper?
They're paying the teachers more (upper middle class), providing free meals, free school supplies, and more personal attention to those in need.

Maybe it would cost less to the society in the long run, but I think the initial cost of the system would have to be higher. It would have to be a serious commitment by whoever wants to try it.

>> ^CreamK:

>> ^tymebendit:
i wish we can try the finnish system.
pick a state, or a city, and try it for 10-15 years.
everyone says out current system is terrible and not working.
how much worse could it be than our current one?
it will cost a bit more than our current system, but probably not that much more...

Actually, Finnish system is cheaper than US and by a large margin... Schools that don't have to make profit are much more cost efficient..

>> ^CreamK:

>> ^tymebendit:
i wish we can try the finnish system.
pick a state, or a city, and try it for 10-15 years.
everyone says out current system is terrible and not working.
how much worse could it be than our current one?
it will cost a bit more than our current system, but probably not that much more...

Actually, Finnish system is cheaper than US and by a large margin... Schools that don't have to make profit are much more cost efficient..


The opportunity cost to transform the US schooling system, covering a larger geographic area and far more students, would be frightful. Not to mention difficult to sell, particularly since Finland already has a developed social leaning.

I can imagine that there was some cost blowout at the time of transformation in Finland.

>> ^tymebendit:

How would it be cheaper?
They're paying the teachers more (upper middle class), providing free meals, free school supplies, and more personal attention to those in need.
Maybe it would cost less to the society in the long run, but I think the initial cost of the system would have to be higher. It would have to be a serious commitment by whoever wants to try it.
>> ^CreamK:
>> ^tymebendit:
i wish we can try the finnish system.
pick a state, or a city, and try it for 10-15 years.
everyone says out current system is terrible and not working.
how much worse could it be than our current one?
it will cost a bit more than our current system, but probably not that much more...

Actually, Finnish system is cheaper than US and by a large margin... Schools that don't have to make profit are much more cost efficient..


The meals you are served at school are typically cheaper than the equivalent meal you would get at a cafeteria anywhere else, they are subsidized or cost mitigated at some point. Plus they provide meals to many kids already free of charge.

School supplies, a school would be able to buy supplies on the whole cheaper than an individual parent x however many students.

And the US schools already provide smaller classes and special buses and/or vans to get handicapped children to and from school. Plus they provide bussing to private schools in my area, I am not sure if they do that at a nominal fee or do it as part of their mandate to provide transportation to these kids.

On top of these things, schools also have sports programs which are astronomically expensive since they require maintaining tracks, fields, and stadiums within the budget of the school. They also pay teachers to be coaches or have an separate coach, all transportation to and from "away" games, uniforms, equipment and the additional parking and safety requirements needed to have games on their premises.

The local school district to me, when they have to make cuts, they never threaten to cut sports. It's always threatening to cut building maintenance, teachers salaries, and buses. Yet sports have no impact on education or the future of about 75% of the kids going through those schools, it's usually a very small group of kids who get to even benefit from the sports programs the school offers but they maintain a stadium, a baseball field, soccer field, football field. Provide uniforms for volleyball, baseball, football, soccer, tennis, and all the other equipment for male and female teams when applicable. I remember it being a big deal with the debate club of 5-10 people who used a small room after school to do their practices got shirts and they otherwise have no additional cost but a few lights and an hour of a teachers time once or twice a week plus debates against other schools...I dont even think they got transportation provided they were expected to be driven to these places by their parents.

US schools spend money on things not related directly to increasing knowledge and education instead preferring to spend major sums of their budgets on sports related costs. Then you have the extra costs associated with special needs kids, because it keeps them from standardized testing to have these kids separated from the regular kids. And yet the kids who are the bright but don't learn well in the traditional classroom get labeled as special needs or "difficult" and are essentially screwed unless their parents go above and beyond to provide them what they need. This is not a system that is designed with cost in mind, whether it be money or the cost of unknowable "future" issues either on personal levels for each student neglected or as a society as a whole as we become about only teaching subjects one way and only one way.

And this is ignoring college education costs and just looking at High School and below. College is astronomically expensive and yet again, they spend loads of money on sports programs but they MIGHT make some fraction of that cost back via ticket sales and such at a generic University and might actually be a profit center in big name University's like OSU.

http://videosift.com/video/Do-Schools-Today-Kill-Creativity-Sir-Ken-Robinson-TED

I'd settle for us being successfully conquered by Finland.

>> ^Peroxide:

The USA needs a reboot.