*quality

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by ponceleon.

Upvote for a shining example of why the DMCA is/was fucking retarded.

Despite the "penalties" for an inappropriate use of takedown notice, I don't think there has been a single case ever where this has been applied. There have been counter-claims used before to get the material posted back, but it seems to be a rare occurrence.

The problem lies within say YouTube taking the video down, and being required by the DMCA to keep it down for a peroid of time (a week?) for a DMCA counter-claim to be processed if necessary. Unless you kick and scream about it like this guy is doing, everyone forgets about it and moves on because of the cool off period. If it ever got past step 1, the amount of money involved to take someone to court over a misfiled claim would bankrupt most people. By then the culprit will just go "LOL, sorry" but the damage will already have been done.

In short, its an extremely easy way for corporations to censor because of this setup. You have almost zero options as the little guy (it was designed this way on purpose!) since YouTube (or any other hosting company) has to follow the DMCA no matter how bad the law is.

Whats even worse is when places outside the US comply to the DMCA blindly despite having no legal obligation to do so whatsoever. Disgusting.

"Despite the "penalties" for an inappropriate use of takedown notice, I don't think there has been a single case ever where this has been applied."

See the public YouTube case of VenomFangX vs. Thunderf00t.

That's just how one false DMCA claim was handled (oddly enough, very similar situation - creationist wanted to stifle free thinker's free speech). There are many more where the DMCA's misuse has seen consequences, and some big names have had to say they were wrong. The EFF would probably be a good place to look, since they're usually involved wherever the DMCA is being invoked, and often, they help with legal expenses of those falsely accused of DMCA infraction (although both Thunderf00t and DonExodus2 both found pro bono help - it seems when it comes to the DMCA and getting a sure-fire case win, you can expect lawyers to come out of the woodwork to your aid).

If you file a DMCA notice on youtube, you are expected to sue the uploaders. If you don't, that's pretty much a given that you're not using the DMCA the way you're supposed to. By law, youtube has to share the takedown letter to the uploader (and they do), so that they can prepare for a lawsuit or counter-suit as the case may be.

Don't get me wrong. The DMCA was a horrible piece of legislation that proves that lawmakers are lazy, incompetent, and just plain out of touch with how the majority of this country thinks. But there's some teeth built into the bill to keep it from being used as a way to stifle free speech. If you're caught misusing the DMCA, you expose yourself to both legal and civil damage. If you cannot pay for your false claims, you can have an injunction placed against you from filing any further DMCA claims.

Well thank you for that bit Unfortunately I was not aware of that particular case. I am glad though what the EFF has been doing to help defend against the DMCA but to me it seems like the law is lopsided in favor of corporations.

Perhaps I worded myself wrong when I meant penalties I was referring to a company not only being found guilty of using the DMCA for false claims but also being fined in a court. I should probably be glad that the pendulum is finally swinging the other way over the past decade towards the consumer. (Or is it? Just slightly?)

The trouble it seems is with the big corporations just throwing these claims everywhere. When they're wrong they just say sorry. What needs to happen is they need to get stabbed right in the wallet so maybe next time they'll think before sending the letter.

>> ^Croccydile:
Upvote for a shining example of why the DMCA is/was fucking retarded.
Despite the "penalties" for an inappropriate use of takedown notice, I don't think there has been a single case ever where this has been applied. There have been counter-claims used before to get the material posted back, but it seems to be a rare occurrence.
The problem lies within say YouTube taking the video down, and being required by the DMCA to keep it down for a peroid of time (a week?) for a DMCA counter-claim to be processed if necessary. Unless you kick and scream about it like this guy is doing, everyone forgets about it and moves on because of the cool off period. If it ever got past step 1, the amount of money involved to take someone to court over a misfiled claim would bankrupt most people. By then the culprit will just go "LOL, sorry" but the damage will already have been done.
In short, its an extremely easy way for corporations to censor because of this setup. You have almost zero options as the little guy (it was designed this way on purpose!) since YouTube (or any other hosting company) has to follow the DMCA no matter how bad the law is.
Whats even worse is when places outside the US comply to the DMCA blindly despite having no legal obligation to do so whatsoever. Disgusting.


Well said man, i've always had this problem about the legal system. It works the same way for big businesses etc. - you make them rich, then the moment you cross some vague line that cuts their profit by even a penny, they have a team of legal experts on hand which they don't have to pay extra for cos they're already on-hand. All they need to do is come and say something that sounds worrying to you, and you now have to either submit or spend your money to defend yourself when you may have done absolutely nothing wrong.

The legal system is absolutely fucked in this way - it benefits people with money. If you don't have it, you can't defend yourself from people who do; you either conform to their desires, or spend money to find out if they're even telling you the truth. If you think about it, throwing around false accusations could be part of an accepted system to generate extra income for the legal professions. When one person makes a false accusation, another person needs to be hired so you even know where you stand.

Imo, there ought to be heavy, heavy penalties (perhaps massive fines or jail time) for threatening false legal action. A couple of examples of a legal professional going to jail for years or bankrupt because he threatened someone with some trumped up nonsense at the request of a fatcat would go a long way. These people should not be allowed to go around bullying people in this "free" world in which we live. They should be concerned that they'll never see their family for a few years, that'd make them think twice before pushing people around with green paper.

As far as perjury, is that something that the "victim" would have to pursue? Perjury is a felony and can result in several years in prison... wouldn't that be a criminal matter rather than a civil one, and thus prosecuted by the state?

In that regard it's more a matter of finding a state prosecutor bored enough to take up the case.

>> ^dannym3141:

These people should not be allowed to go around bullying people in this "free" world in which we live. They should be concerned that they'll never see their family for a few years, that'd make them think twice before pushing people around with green paper.


That will never happen. I look at it like this.

These corporations are like a lion grrrrabbing a zebra by the throat. And every time we move the teeth just go deeper. They will never let go and its too late to do anything about it.

I can think of only one way to stop them at this point - a massive revolution by the people. In this country that is highly unlikely. We are surrounded by religious nutjobs who think Jesus is coming to take us away and could give a crap about this world. Men who care more about the size of their dick than anything else. And women who are always right, even when they are wrong, and only worry about their vanity. And I know that everyone doesn't fall into these categories, but too many do. Let's face it, us that care, we will never get enough support to back us on any issue that isn't in the corporate interest. They control everything, most important of which is information. They censor everything through the media and there is nothing that most people hear about that they don't want us to hear. As you can tell, I'm not optimistic about this situation at all.

>> ^village1diot:
That will never happen. I look at it like this.
These corporations are like a lion grrrrabbing a zebra by the throat. And every time we move the teeth just go deeper. They will never let go and its too late to do anything about it.
I can think of only one way to stop them at this point - a massive revolution by the people. In this country that is highly unlikely. We are surrounded by religious nutjobs who think Jesus is coming to take us away and could give a crap about this world. Men who care more about the size of their dick than anything else. And women who are always right, even when they are wrong, and only worry about their vanity. And I know that everyone doesn't fall into these categories, but too many do. Let's face it, us that care, we will never get enough support to back us on any issue that isn't in the corporate interest. They control everything, most important of which is information. They censor everything through the media and there is nothing that most people hear about that they don't want us to hear. As you can tell, I'm not optimistic about this situation at all.
<div><div style="margin: 10px; overflow: auto; width: 80%; float: left; position: relative;" class="convoPiece"> dannym3141 said:<img style="margin: 4px 10px 10px; float: left; width: 40px;" src="http://static1.videosift.com/avatars/d/dannym3141-s.jpg" onerror="ph(this)"><div style="position: absolute; margin-left: 52px; padding-top: 1px; font-size: 10px;" class="commentarrow">◄</div><div style="padding: 8px; margin-left: 60px; margin-top: 2px; min-height: 30px;" class="nestedComment box">These people should not be allowed to go around bullying people in this "free" world in which we live. They should be concerned that they'll never see their family for a few years, that'd make them think twice before pushing people around with green paper.
</div></div></div>

Mate i share your lack of enthusiasm, i think we've reached a critical apathy point, where mostly no one cares enough about anything to get active or get involved unless it's something completely off the scale. The position that we have allowed our politicians, banks, and businesses to get into is something we should be extremely ashamed of. And today the people who are growing up to become the next generation of politicians bankers and heads of business are undereducated (to make school stats go up), indisciplined (because they might sue us if we shout at them at school), greedy (because we tell all kids that they're capable of things that they are clearly not) and apathetic themselves.

Hey kids, did you fail/barely pass all your schooling and colleges? Don't worry, everyone goes to university nowadays. We've watered it down so that you can go and learn whilst the bright people who push this world and humanity to new heights get a more watered down education which is also now spread across too many students! ENJOY YOUR LIFE OF OVER-QUALIFIED MEDIOCRITY. NO WONDER PEOPLE WITH DEGREES ARE UNEMPLOYED, DEGREES AIN'T WORTH SHIT ANYMORE. How come we suddenly send trade occupations through universities? I know loads of electricians and such that say they have to UNTEACH people the university degree that they spend £12000 on before they can learn properly how to be an electrician. Suddenly apprenticeships and on-the-job experience isn't good enough, we need them to sit in a fucking classroom and get huge student debt to do a good job? I guarantee in 1 generation we'll have a shortage of quality electricians. All our electricians will have a PhD but not a fucking clue how to change a fucking lightbulb.

AND WE ONLY HAVE STUDENT DEBTS BECAUSE WE CAN'T AFFORD UNIVERSITY GRANTS BECAUSE 90% OF THE POPULATION NOW GOES TO A UNIVERSITY TO DO A DEGREE WHICH THEY DON'T NEED OR PROBABLY EVEN USE.

Oh my god i had typed "I won't rant though." Then when i went back to correct a spelling mistake, i'd already ranted.

This is kind of a dupe, but seems to be created after he found a lawyer where in the original he is looking for legal representation. Original here: http://www.videosift.com/video/Discovery-Institute-Caught-Illegally-Censoring-Videos