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bmacs27 says...

@shatterdrose Not everything is a gendered issue. Just because someone draws a line and says that this particular problem doesn't reduce to sexism doesn't mean they support spousal abuse and sex trafficking (both of which are obviously gendered). Compare Emily's experience to this one: http://www.salon.com/2013/10/02/my_embarrassing_picture_went_viral/

Personally I would call the latter true internet abuse. Notice that by her own report most of the perpetrators were women. Equating these two concerns trivializes the issue. If Emily had said maybe women don't want to be STEM bloggers because in their country they are subject to genital mutilation, sexual slavery, or aren't educated then I would agree with her. Instead she ranted about her attractive white westerner problems.

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bmacs27 says...

It refers to the attitude of the speaker. If the speaker means to praise the subject along any dimension it is favorable attention. If instead the speaker intends cruelty toward the subject it would be decidedly unfavorable attention.

Is this not an obvious difference to all of you? I don't think this is a gendered issue at all. I find it cruel to equate unwanted (if you prefer) sexual attention with the complete debasement accompanying internet abuse.

eric3579 said:

Why call it unwanted FAVORABLE attention if women find it demeaning. How is anything demeaning favorable? It seems to me being verbally demeaned could be or is a form of verbal abuse.

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bmacs27 says...

Do you have any female friends that rarely get catcalled? Ever spoken with them about the women who always complain about how men are always interested in sex?

I know that women find it demeaning. I'm saying that's like being angry you ate too much steak and don't have enough room for dessert. Internet bullying can lead to suicide or severe depression. I find it sick that you (or she) would equate unwanted favorable attention with outright verbal abuse.

shatterdrose said:

I'd suggest talking to as many of your female friends as possible and find out from them whether or not they enjoy being catcalled. You'd be surprised by A) how many of them actually find it demeaning and B) how many of them determine if it's demeaning by what the other person looks like (I won't even go into what this says about them.)

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bmacs27 says...

I agree, I restricted my point to things that can easily be changed. That was intentional. Those were the sorts of comments she was complaining about (e.g. that she's being "intentionally unattractive"). Men would receive similar criticism. If straight up sinewy stud wore baggy assed stained hoodies to his weatherman job, or thick rimmed glasses and a pocket protector with suspenders then a handful of people would give him shit for it. I promise you. They would. A handful more will talk about how they don't give a fuck and want to jump on his magnetic pole. The rest will talk about how they hate "wintery mix."

You seem to miss my point. I think it's demeaning to suggest that being sexualized is the problem, or even that it is gendered. Cat calls, come ons and so forth should be seen for what they are. Compliments. The problem is exactly what you said in the last paragraph. What you look like, and the value of what you say should be seen as completely orthogonal dimensions. Unfortunately, in this world they aren't. That's lame.

shatterdrose said:

Men aren't judged by looks as much as women. And you're talking about clothing and things easily adjusted, such as shaving. Both of those are generally considered unkept, for good looking men or ugly men. Has nothing to do with physical merit.

Plus, if you look at, for instance, TV Anchors, how many of those men are in super good shape? Especially sports announcers. How many overweight men do you see on tv, and how many over weight women? Save for Candy, of course. (Wasn't her name Candy? Cindy? Mandy? Andy? Damn I'm bad with names grrr) Point stands, women are held to a much higher standard for physical attractiveness than men in order to be considered "worthwhile" or "have anything relevant to say".

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bmacs27 says...

It happens to men all the time. That's part of talking in front of a camera. You get evaluated on appearance. If a guy got up there with a neck beard and schlubby clothes people will tell him to get himself together. That is if they don't tell him to eat shit and die first.

Being called both beautiful and smart isn't bullying.

The problem isn't sexism. It's lookism.

shatterdrose said:

No, but when a male makes a blog about science, it's not littered with "wow, you're hot" the same way a female's is. That is sexism. When it's ok to do it towards one sex but not the other.

Plus, if her video is about magnets, what does her being attractive have to do with it? (Yes, I know, I left that one wide open for puns, mostly because I find them so polarizing.)

Also, it makes those who are not attractive (one of the points she also made) feel like they cannot join the STEM vlog's because they will be called ugly, fat etc. So yes, it is bullying.

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