One of the many core and wrong ideas in Feminism is that the sex of a person doesn't seem to play much of a role in anything. And in this case, Feminism is responsible for holding back medical science. Feminism is a blight on intellectual discourse. I'm not going to spend the time it takes to unravel a snake like Feminism here, but in brief, it's an untenable ideology.

One of its core philosophies is the idea of the Patriarchy, which is not only theoretical, but creates hypocritical scenarios in Feminist debate.

For instance, Feminists state that the Patriarchy supports and allows men to lead privileged lives. Yet when it is pointed out that men are sentenced twice as long for exact same crimes; men have zero protection of their genitals as babies; that there is FAR more funding for women's schooling, businesses, and health; or that in any emergency situation it is expected that men's lives are forfeit - the argument you'll get back is "See, Patriarchy hurts men too!". This rebuttal is in obvious contradiction to the idea that Patriarchy allows men to live privileged lives.

Another core idea is wage gap which has been disproven over and over for decades, even by some Feminsts:

http://www.topmanagementdegrees.com/women-dont-make-less/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

Feminism also focuses a great deal on "objectification", which presupposes that men are (always) sexually attracted to something *other* than the curves of a womans body. This is not only obviously off kilter for anyone with a basic understanding of evolutionary psychology, but has been scientifically proven false. Men are biologically wired to base mate finding on looks.

So the word 'objectification' actually becomes Feminist propaganda for the demonizing of male sexuality.

Furthermore regarding female objectification in society - we all often see the viral videos "How Women's Bodies Are Changed Beyond Recognition in Photoshop!" But consider that 80% of consumer dollars are spent by women. So in essence we have women complaining about women being objectified while women buy into objectification. What exactly do we expect advertising agencies to do?

I've even seen scenarios for men in which, if he found a woman attractive, then he's objectifying her; and if he found her unattractive, then he's shallow for only caring about looks.

Then there is argument from Feminists that Feminism helps to empower men as well. No, it doesn't. In fact much has been shown in the opposite: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/g2eme/feminists_tell_you_that_the_solution_to_mens/

98% of workforce deaths are male. You never see Feminists rallying to take on these jobs on the front lines in combat, or in jobs that involve heavy machinery, working outdoors in inclement weather, inhaling toxic fumes, or apprehending dangerous criminals. Why not? After all, fair is fair! Let's remove the stigma around men being "losers" if they are stay-at-home Dads, while Moms can be the breadwinners for once.

It's clear that Feminism isn't about gender equality. You never see Feminists rallying about how He-Man set an unrealistic body image for boys, but the focus and attention on Barbie has been unreal.

Take into consideration, among everything else I've stated, that words like "mansplaining" are part of Feminist vocabulary, and I think you start to get a picture why no self respecting man has anything to do with Feminism.

There's much much more research, evidence, and articles I can cite, but the final point is that Feminism is a toxic and counterproductive movement.

Perhaps there will be "equality between the sexes" when the likelihood of men becoming estranged from their children and families after a divorce is the same as it is for women... Or when the expectation of "supporting" one's family is actually spending time with them and not simply being their "wallet"...

I'll see equality when the life expectancy between men and women is the same... Or when the risk of becoming homeless is the same... Or to become a victim of violence (or simply being suspected of violence or threatened with violence due to ones gender) is the same.. Or when the probability of dying by suicide is the same. . . Perhaps we'll all be equal then.

So they're against the objectification of women yet they make sure to put on plenty of make-up and do their hair when protesting...

I've never wanted to have sex with Homer Simpson more so than I do now. Let the objectification begin!

@messenger's link is spot on: rape is the fault of the rapist, and the culture that breeds human (sexual) objectification. As a society we need to stop focusing on the "how not to get raped" and start working on the "how not to become a rapist". Very, very few rapes/instances of sexual abuse are the acts of psychopaths/mentally ill.

@JiggaJonson

Agreed/ Which is largely the deciding factor in my thong avatars. However, the theme for this song was Beautiful things (fantastically shaped ass') and beautiful music. The objectification seems to have manifested itself subconsciously in your own mind. Possibly other minds as well, but non so audacious.

It's taken the better part of an hour rewatching, but I've finally figured out which part of this gave me a sense of some sort of objectification undertone.

>> ^xxovercastxx:

>> ^Ryjkyj:
That's absolutely brilliant. I mean, think about it. If you want someone to remember your cause, you could do a lot worse than associating it with a blond, bare-chested model
Unless, of course, you're protesting the objectification of women. Then, it seems to me, a titty-based message might be counter-productive.


It is, but it works. Otherwise, we'd not be paying any attention.

>> ^Ryjkyj:

That's absolutely brilliant. I mean, think about it. If you want someone to remember your cause, you could do a lot worse than associating it with a blond, bare-chested model

Unless, of course, you're protesting the objectification of women. Then, it seems to me, a titty-based message might be counter-productive.

>> ^spoco2:

I'm really not a fan of her. I've seen her essentially do this schtick a couple of times and it just shows contempt for women, contempt for men and a generally horrible outlook on life.
She goes on and on about how fake makeup is and dressing in a sexual manner.
And yet she always wears makeup and is a model.
So... you know.


Yeah, her contempt for objectification does sort of clash with her chosen profession of being an object. There's no sarcasm or parody detectable in her photospreads, they're indistinguishable from any other young model who's trying to look like a piece of meat.

Still, these are quite funny and perceptive. I think she's doing more good with these videos than she is doing harm with her generic bimbo photoshoots.

Hell, he's gorgeous...objectify away. I certainly did with the blue outfits the women wore, and I can't see any way that wasn't the intended reaction. Objectifying beautiful performers is perfectly normal and reasonable.

The only time objectification is an actual problem is if you're actually interacting with, or affecting someone. Treating someone like an object is wrong. Watching a performance and appreciating their beauty is not.

>> ^rottenseed:

This is objectification at the highest level

I thought objectification was telling hot chicks to shut up and look pretty... maybe make a sandwich. I'd have more respect for this bunch if they had kept quiet. They should take a few minutes to study Abraham Lincoln quotes.

I didn't want to argue about this in the comment stream, so I have moved it over here. I have left it public if anyone wants to peek, but I didn't want to hijack the very funny Evolution vid with an off-topic.

Well, we're going to have to disagree about this, Gallow. As a woman, I watched the Evolution vid all the way to the end. I saw 50 pretty and maybe 15 (I didn't count) intelligent women answering a politically loaded question that should never have been asked. See vid "should math be taught" -- Miss Vermont got the answer right.

I couldn't watch the shower one. I tried. I got about 1/3 of the way in.

It may have been really funny according to your "precious white male view of the world", but let me assure you, it wasn't funny to me. It was tedious and stupid and a perfect example of a woman being reduced to her body parts.

I could wrong about that, of course, since I gave us so quickly. Did she ever speak? Did she have a line? Was she accorded a point of view, even if it was steeped in the idiocy that is American public thought (I am referencing the stupid evolution answers, if that isn't clear)?

Also... objectification "substantiated" by comedy? That is just plain old objectification, sweetpea, with extra syllables. And.... you think you know which is worse? Don't you think you might ask a woman who is the target of the objectification, rather than checking in with yourself? After all, you are not the potentially offended one, are you? Shouldn't you be asking a bunch of women if THEY are offended?

I'm not defending beauty pageants, I hope you have realized. Rottenseed called me to that vid for the sole purpose of baiting me about the women's movement (a phrase that feels outdated after all these decades.) I was doing what I always do when rotten attempts to get my goat -- I answer the substance of the comment, pretend he isn't a dickhead trying to make me mad, and take the opportunity to rephrase whatever it is he is saying in a gender-neutral or woman-positive way. (Hi rotten. I didn't plan on mentioning you, I just ended up here. Hope you don't instaban me for calling you a dickhead -- snarf.)

I get that you have a different point of view. I also get that there is nothing I can say that will shift your perspective, so why bother "debating"? Having said that, I LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS SHIT. If you want to continue, I'm up for it.

I know that I am one lonely voice here in a sea of white men who have their own struggles with cultural expectations (I mean that sincerely, not snarkily.) That's okay. I have gotten very very VERY good at skipping over shinyblurry's lectures -- I assume that I am skipped over also. I can live with it.

In reply to this comment by Gallowflak:m

I can't not say that - according to my precious white male view of the world - whatever objectification there is in the CollegeHumour video you mentioned is substantiated by the comedy. It's not about the objectification of women. It's using a very common experience as a foundation from which to express wit and humour and crack a good joke or two.

Miss USA, by comparison, is pretty much exclusively about the objectification of women. That's all there is. There's no gag, no punchline, no purpose other than determining whose features are the most shapely and symmetrical and who looks nicest in a dress.

I know which one I think is worse.

"The highest level"?

I beg to differ.

How about the sex in the shower, currently in the Top 15? That, my friend, is objectification.

Let's agree to disagree. I don't want to argue about this.

>> ^rottenseed:

They don't have a Mr. USA competition...at least a mainstream one. This is objectification at the highest level and what makes it worse is that they're opening their mouths to either safely pander to the lowest common denominator or to vomit the contents of their professional-beauty-pageant-contestant sized brains.>> ^bareboards2:
Thanks for pointing this out to me, rottenseed.
My mind is just churning now -- I would LOVE to see a map of the US colored in the different "beliefs." The sense I got was the deep South women were the most heavily invested in teaching "the other side."
These were also the women who were chosen to represent their state -- as @NetRunner said, these women gave "safe" answers. I loved the honesty of the one who said "wow, I just made someone mad." Extra points for honesty.
Although I don't see what this has to do with the women's movement, rotty baby. Give me a good looking man from each of these states, I'm betting you would get the same range of answers.
Anybody else reminded of the Scopes "monkey trial"? Why the hell did the pageant officials even ask this question? WHY THE HOLY HECK IS THIS QUESTION EVEN BEING ASKED???

>> ^rottenseed:
I call on @bareboards2
She needs to see the real enemies of the women's movement...

They don't have a Mr. USA competition...at least a mainstream one. This is objectification at the highest level and what makes it worse is that they're opening their mouths to either safely pander to the lowest common denominator or to vomit the contents of their professional-beauty-pageant-contestant sized brains.>> ^bareboards2:

Thanks for pointing this out to me, rottenseed.
My mind is just churning now -- I would LOVE to see a map of the US colored in the different "beliefs." The sense I got was the deep South women were the most heavily invested in teaching "the other side."
These were also the women who were chosen to represent their state -- as @NetRunner said, these women gave "safe" answers. I loved the honesty of the one who said "wow, I just made someone mad." Extra points for honesty.
Although I don't see what this has to do with the women's movement, rotty baby. Give me a good looking man from each of these states, I'm betting you would get the same range of answers.
Anybody else reminded of the Scopes "monkey trial"? Why the hell did the pageant officials even ask this question? WHY THE HOLY HECK IS THIS QUESTION EVEN BEING ASKED???

>> ^rottenseed:
I call on @bareboards2
She needs to see the real enemies of the women's movement...

^bareboards2:

I agree, except for the last sentence. It isn't almost as bad as being that way yourself. No way do I agree with that.
What is it that you hate about it, @<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/Ryjkyj" title="member since December 19th, 2006" class="profilelink">Ryjkyj ? I love that you see so clearly how non-gendered the original Carlin quote is -- I think you "get it" -- so I wonder what it is about this that bugs you?
>> ^spoco2:
Just gotta say that to those that can't see her point and wonder who she's talking to, she seems to mostly be talking to those who stand by, not so much those that rape (because how many of them would be watching slam poetry?), but for those that just let slide all the comments, all the macho shit, all the objectification of women. Letting other men think that it's fine to be that way is almost as bad as being that way yourself.



Yeah, I kinda thought it was a little bit of an overstatement when I wrote it. It's not as bad as actively doing it to be absolutely sure.

But not speaking out against derogatory remarks, actions and the like does nothing to help the situation and allows it to perpetrate.